Looking for a good portable recorder under $1000

[newpollution]

Hi everyone,
I've recently become more interested in doing some field recordings and I'm looking for a new portable digital recorder. This subforum seems to have some great info, and I'm starting to dig through it, but I figured I'd ask about my specific needs. Thank you for any advice.

For portable recording in the past I've always used an M-Audio Microtrack II. It's worked pretty well for me, but has some obvious drawbacks (non-replaceable battery, no XLR inputs, a bit noisy etc.). I'm looking to get something a step or two up from this. I'll be using it for a variety of recordings (music, sound effects, ambience) and with some different mics (condensers, shotgun)

Here's what I think I need:
-at least 2 XLR inputs
-phantom power
-as low noise as possible (the microtrack sounds too noisy for me)
-under $1000
-something fairly small (though I realize it'll have to be bigger than the microtrack)

Any suggestions? In the past I've only researched cheaper recorders (around the level of the microtrack) and I'm feeling a bit clueless about where to start with this. Thanks again for any help or ideas!

[Teddy Ray]

I would go for one of the Oade brothers hotrodded recorders.

Those guys are excellent at what they do(theyve been modding recorders since the days of the PCM F1 and are responsible for many of the legendary Grateful Dead recordings you can find on Archive.org.)

Tascam HDP2 - Timecode CF Recorder Upgrades

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by newpollution

... Any suggestions? ...

Here's a variety of music & interviews & sound effects all done with a Sony PCM-D50. Very versatile and inconspicuous. A one-armed paper hanger could run it!

Troy Night Out!

[Mark A. Jay]

I have a couple of these and have been very pleased with them. Very reliable, lots of good features, and very low noise preamps. You can also do a variety of effects with them, but I never do - I just use them to record.

Anyway, I like them a lot; you can cascade two of them (one becomes 'master' and the other 'slave') and get a nice 8-channel unit in the process. This has been a very welcome feature for me, because for 2,3, or 4-channel jobs I just take the one, but when I need more, I grab both.

Conversely, it's possible (having two) for me to record one gig and my associate the other.

They run right around $1,000. I'm very happy with mine.

[Dr Bob]

I have also used a Microtrak for some time, generally as a back up to laptop recording on PT with an M-Box--using an Apogee Mini-Me to avoid the pres and converters in the M-Box. Well, PT LE did its "thing" one time too many: it simply quit on me during a recital in an art museum. . . lucky for the Microtrack back up. (The Mini-me has both its S/PDIF and AES outputs active simultaneously, so I route the AES through a transformer to the Microtrak and S/PDIF to the M-Box.)

Ok. The backup saved me again but it is a pain and always scary to have to go to a back up. (It is rare for my PT LE remote rig to crash but even a couple of times is too many.)

I also have started to dabble in video so I have needed a good battery operated rig for that too. I had 15 relatively simple two-mic remote recital gigs coming up in a two and a half week period so I decided to dump the laptop and give an R-44 a whirl. I was attracted by the simplicity of it. Long story short: I love it.

The pres and converters are usable. I could get by with them in most cases. (I still use the Mini-me as a front end most of the time though.) I have converted to battery power (Lith-Ion DVD batteries like the concert "tapers" use) for most everything on these remotes now and so far I have had no problems at all.

No moving parts, convenient file naming, logical menu structure, four channels if you need it: the r-44 is really solid. If the external battery (or AC) fails it gracefully switches over to internal batteries. Decent headphone output. So far it is DEAD RELIABLE. I still run the Microtrak as a back up (also have tried a Zoom H-4 for backup spitting the mics with a wye cable--just to see what it was like) but so far I have not had any problems at all with the R-44.

I highly recommend this unit. (And thanks to NorseHorse for bringing this unit to my attention with his glowing posts.)

[Hornblower64]

XLR inputs will limit your choices a bit, but they really are better than mini-jacks. Consider:

Tascam HD-P2 (2ch)
Tascam DR-680 (6/8ch!)
Fostex FR-2LE (2ch)
Edirol R44 (4ch)

All under $1k. A friend has the Oade Bros. modified HD-P2, and it sounds very good.

If you could swing $2-3k, these are super; way better; real pro stuff:

Sound Devices 702
Nagra LB

I have a Nagra, and couldn't be happier with my choice.

[mathieujm]

I have the FR-2LE since a few months now and am very happy with it.
It fulfils all your requirements very well, particulary considering the low noise of the preamps and their quality.
Look here
Portable Recorder Noise: The Sounds of Silence

I posted here a sample
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5405679-post4.html

A great advantage on the others named here is that you can record on battery with a pair of condensers with phantom on, during 8 hours.
However, don't think using the internal mics and choose carefully your headphones because the ouput is not very hot (7506 or HD25 work correctly).

JMM

[chris319]

If I were looking for a recorder, I would get this instead of the FR2-LE I already own. The FR2-LE has a dreadful output section which I don't think you'll be happy with.

TASCAM

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by chris319

If I were looking for a recorder, I would get this instead of the FR2-LE I already own. The FR2-LE has a dreadful output section which I don't think you'll be happy with.

TASCAM

At this price point, you have to make compromises. Personaly, i prefer having really silent preamps even if the output is not as hot and silent as I could want. Clearly the output of the FR-2LE is not done for critical monitoring, but to increase batteries life and give a sufficiant idea of what is recorded.

Here are some interesting measurements :
Avisoft Bioacoustics - Microphone Input Noise Comparision

JMM

[chris319]

Clearly the output of the FR-2LE is not done for critical monitoring, but to increase batteries life and give a sufficiant idea of what is recorded.

It doesn't even do the latter. The output section is poorly designed and implemented, and the FR2-LE has low-slew-rate mic preamps.

i prefer having really silent preamps even if the output is not as hot and silent as I could want.

After listening to the above tests, I withdraw my recommendation of the Tascam DR-100 if you're going to use its internal mic preamps.

[alkor]

zoom h4n

[newpollution]

Thanks for all the responses! Much appreciated.

I'm going to look into a lot of those more now.

Also, has anyone used the Marantz PMD 661? How does that compare to the things people have been mentioning? It has 2 XLRs and phantom power but I don't know much about it. Do you think the preamps are pretty quiet? Any ideas?

To clarify my original question: I'd be OK with 2 channels for this recorder (though I'm certainly not against 4 if that recorder is right for me).

[RobAnderson]

I am loving my DR-680, though I can't speak to the noise level of the mic amps since I use an external pre. It fulfills all of your other requirements: 4 XLR inputs, 6 channels with phantom power (though, again, I can't comment on the robustness of the phantom since I have not used it);

I am not sure what your definition of "small" is. It's not big - 8" x 7" x 2" approx. - and it's fairly light.

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by chris319

It doesn't even do the latter. The output section is poorly designed and implemented, and the FR2-LE has low-slew-rate mic preamps.

Maybe ! did you have direct access to it ? Which headphone did you use ?
but the facts are there :
I find these preamps very usable and not "slow" at all.

Then do you know any other portable recorder in this price range which can record on internal battery, with 2 condensor mics, with continuous light of the screen, with the output headphones volume to 2/3, during... hum, now mine records since 8h30 and the battery indicator is always at max. I will have to put another 8G card to know when this battery will go down.
Very reassuring for the purpose I bought this FR-2LE : recording in a we 12 concerts, each 1/2h long, in different places of my town...

[chris319]

did you have direct access to it ?

Direct access to what?

I find these preamps very usable and not "slow" at all.I find these preamps very usable and not "slow" at all.

It is a fact that the stock JRC preamps have a much lower slew rate spec than most other mic preamp circuits in use today (the Oades have made a business of upgrading these preamps).

Then do you know any other portable recorder in this price range which can record on internal battery, with 2 condensor mics, with continuous light of the screen, with the output headphones volume to 2/3, during... hum, now mine records since 8h30 and the battery indicator is always at max. I will have to put another 8G card to know when this battery will go down.

Battery life is not the only criterion to judge these by, and I have made an outboard battery "sled" using D cells so the comparison would not be valid anyway. Now, take an FR2-LE, feed it a 1 kHz sine wave at 0 dBFS and put an oscilloscope on the output. As you turn up the output level control, watch as the sine wave clips on the oscilloscope a little after the 12 o'clock position.

What would I recommend? If money is no object, a Sony PCM-D50 with a Core Sound mic preamp and optical interface (or any outboard mic preamp/mixer into the line input). I'm not familiar with the Zoom H4n but it would be another one to look into. I will be using my FR2-LE for an upcoming project but will be bypassing the mic preamps with an outboard mixer and will be monitoring on that mixer, bypassing the FR2-LE's output section.

[newpollution]

So, any idea about the Marantz PMD 661? And how it compares to the things mentioned so far? Thanks again for the suggestions.

[Bgreen]

After the first run with the DR-680's, I love them. I used three of them for three stages last weekend. I ordered my last Wednesday for a gig thursday. Literally got them 20 minutes before I left. I was able to open it up and go to town without ever having to open the manual. Heres a clip of a rough mix, recorded using the stock pre's. It's an outside show and it was very windy so there is a little ambient noise there, but the pres seem darn quiet to me

https://www.yousendit.com/download/Y...Q3REa1d4dnc9PQ

[kingtut38]

I've got a h4n which is ok for most applications but I think the FR2-LE is the way to go. Very low noise preamps. If you look here you can see that it is only eclipsed by the much more expensive sound devices 722.

Avisoft Bioacoustics - Microphone Input Noise Comparision

[violinbf]

+1 on the FR2-LE

[Don S]

Keep your eyes on Ebay! A Sound Devices 702 might be close to your budget and will outperform most of the suggestions listed and mentioned. For a couple hundred more, you're in the top of the class.