Nagra VI / Sound Devices 788T shootout

[aracu]

Originally Posted by tourtelot

What I find interesting in this thread is the folks who say that either A or B sounds better knowing what A and B are.

I think this is a good point. One of the brand names is a status symbol
and one of the brand names is primarily associated with film making.

We cannot believe that we are not influenced by sociological facters.

Audio engineers often tend to identify with products, although the really
important factors of a recording are the people involved, the music
and the room.

In actual situations, the subtle differences preamps or microphones
will slightly help or impede the final result, depending on the exact circumstance. I know from experience that I often prefer Sound Devices
over Gordon but that does not mean that one is better than the other.

This is an excellent thread demonstrating a very interesting recording technique and great sounding clips.

Michael, what is your general impression on using the c617 with the ball
designed for it and what distances do you prefer using it from sources?
Does the mic take eq well?

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by aracu

A world of difference in listening objectively...

+1

[rumleymusic]

Michael, what is your general impression on using the c617 with the ball
designed for it and what distances do you prefer using it from sources?
Does the mic take eq well?

Can't comment on the ball, but the mic takes eq very well, It is almost a blank slate for sonic manipulation. That was based mostly on experimentation because in the situations I used it in, the sound was so perfect I kept the eq flat.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by aracu

Michael, what is your general impression on using the c617 with the ball designed for it and what distances do you prefer using it from sources?

I'm still experimenting. The ball does exactly what it should, which is to reach further on-axis.

In retrospect I believe the angle between mics in this capture was too great, leaving a hole in the middle. I've since bought some alternate standoff bars to move the mic bodies out away from the disc. These will allow the mics to be angled less (i.e. directly forward if I want) while keeping adequate capsule distance from the disc itself.

Once I've had a chance to make more experiments I'll probably post new findings here: AB Disc Tree (ABDT)

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

Can't comment on the ball, but the mic takes eq very well, It is almost a blank slate for sonic manipulation. That was based mostly on experimentation because in the situations I used it in, the sound was so perfect I kept the eq flat.

I agree completely.

[aracu]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

In retrospect I believe the angle between mics in this capture was too great, leaving a hole in the middle. AB Disc Tree (ABDT)

It achieves very effective spatial quality. This is very interesting for contemporary orchestral/choir music, a kind of spacial universe of sound.

I like the little of what I have heard of the the Neumann TLM 50 placed far in a reverberant space, an opposite effect spacially, more of a classic hi-fi sound for standard repetoire. Terribly expensive mic though.

The Sennheiser 800 in the diffuse field combined with a Royer sf24 fairly
close creates a completely different sound, also compelling.

[aracu]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

Can't comment on the ball, but the mic takes eq very well, It is almost a blank slate for sonic manipulation.

That helps make it very useful.

[mosrite]

I think this is a good point. One of the brand names is a status symbol
and one of the brand names is primarily associated with film making.

Anti-Nagra propoganda! Nagra=Rolex. Swiss and expensive, a purchase by which ones socio-economic prestige can be measured! But what of the contribution that the company have made to recorded sound for both music and film for decades? Forget that, its just over priced gear for Mr fancy pants isn't it?

[tourtelot]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Anti-Nagra propoganda! Nagra=Rolex. Swiss and expensive, a purchase by which ones socio-economic prestige can be measured! But what of the contribution that the company have made to recorded sound for both music and film for decades? Forget that, its just over priced gear for Mr fancy pants isn't it?

What does any of this have to do with a simple A-B comparison between two devices? I'd just like to have it be a comparison with out any "fancy pants" bias.

FWIW, I started my career on a Nagra III, used Nagra 4 and IV machines, and owned a Nagra IVSTC, so I am by no means anti-Nagra.

D.

Oh, and I like Rolex watches as well; I wear a Heuer

[mosrite]

Originally Posted by tourtelot

What does any of this have to do with a simple A-B comparison between two devices? I'd just like to have it be a comparison with out any "fancy pants" bias.

Exactly, but you have to admit that was a very silly comment by "aracu."

p.s. I wear a 1973 Omega. Do we now feel obliged to start a "what watch do you wear?" thread

[tourtelot]

"Watch thing?" Nope. Just being silly. Sorry.

D.

[mosrite]

Tourtelot, I think the humour in my posts has evaded you

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Tourtelot, I think the humour in my posts has evaded you

Humor of that kind is tribal and lacks the virtue of civility when used in an open forum where it's likely others will be offended.

[Arthur Stone]

Thanks to the OP I'm just a home-studio guy who does a little bit of outside recording (SD702); my subjective (and untrained) impression is that one unit is slightly more 'coloured' than the other (in a pleasing way) and the other is more 'accurate' - both sound equally as good IMHO.

I appreciate everyones comments.

[marvin100]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Exactly, but you have to admit that was a very silly comment by "aracu."

p.s. I wear a 1973 Omega. Do we now feel obliged to start a "what watch do you wear?" thread

IWC Aquatimer

SD 788T

:D

[Plush]

I wear a Swatch and a fake Panerai. Also a fake Heuer.

I drive a Nagra.

[John Willett]

Just put my name on the list for the new Nagra stereo pre. with built-in recorder (as reported by Plush recently).

So I will have 6 x analogue mic. channels for my Nagra VI and can take the little unit out on its own when I only need a small 2-channel machine.

Oh - and my two Neumann DMI-2P arrived the other day, so I can now record 8-channels on the Nagra VI - four analogue mics + four digital mics.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[Plush]

WOW--what a set-up, John.
Oh my Root!

[mosrite]

Humor of that kind is tribal and lacks the virtue of civility when used in an open forum where it's likely others will be offended.

Sorry to be a pain but would you care to explain this comment please Michael?

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mosrite

would you care to explain...?

Sure.

A "tribe" is a pre-civil social group. Tribe | Define Tribe at Dictionary.com

Tribal humor is pleasurable and bolsters group identity, but in an open forum it is antisocial to non-members, and that's what makes it "uncivil". Uncivil | Define Uncivil at Dictionary.com

A good way to improve GS and be "civil" is to start a thread where tribe members are invited to revel in what makes them special. Yahoo Groups is designed for this, and nothing prevents us from doing "groups" here on GS too. It just takes a little forethought.

The point is, I started this thread to share clips for professionals to evaluate, not so people can feed tribal pleasures about their SD and Nagra treasures. Anyone wanting that can circle up in another thread.

[mosrite]

Thanks for the definitions Michael but I know that you know that is not what I was getting at. I would like to know in what way my posts were 'tribal' ?

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Thanks for the definitions Michael but I know that you know that is not what I was getting at. I would like to know in what way my posts were 'tribal' ?

More than anything I was agreeing with you. If you still want to discuss please PM me. I'd prefer to talk with you by phone.

[tourtelot]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Tourtelot, I think the humour in my posts has evaded you

Not evaded. I just don't think you have any

D.

[aracu]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

In retrospect I believe the angle between mics in this capture was too great, leaving a hole in the middle. AB Disc Tree (ABDT)

I find that creating a wide "fantasy" stereo image can improve the percieved audio quality of a recording, especially if the acoustics are harsh or the sound of the ensemble is lacking in symetry. If the music is open and suggestive harmonically, having an "overly" wide image can compliment the esthetic idea and help to establish a feeling of floating, with an increased awareness of details, since the different elements of the music are more isolated from one another.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by aracu

I find that creating a wide "fantasy" stereo image can improve the percieved audio quality of a recording, especially if the acoustics are harsh or the sound of the ensemble is lacking in symetry. If the music is open and suggestive harmonically, having an "overly" wide image can compliment the esthetic idea and help to establish a feeling of floating, with an increased awareness of details, since the different elements of the music are more isolated from one another.

An interesting theory. I'm hoping to achieve the same basic result as before but with a middle that's a bit more solid. A phase-array effect will be at work when the omnis are AB on either side of the disk and the directly forward angle puts the center of an ensemble in focus. Based on past experiments I'm excited about the prospects.