Best Mic Cables

[CPTenorII]

I realize this discussion has been hacked to death elsewhere. For now, assume that mic cables DO in fact impact the sound. For a classical guy like me, what are the absolute best mic cables? By best, I mean, flattest, cleanest, quietest. Cables which are entirely invisible and allow for the full performance of mics and preamps. So far, the ones I have run across are:

-Mogami
-Canare
-Monster
-Zaolla
-AccuSound
-KimberKable

What do you all think? Is silver better? What is the most neutral? Thanks.

[Doc Mixwell]

Best advice is to try and test them all objectively.

[zoom]

Gotham GAC-3

[CPTenorII]

Originally Posted by zoom

Gotham GAC-3

Can you get these cables pre-made? What are the costs? I am not familiar with this brand. Are they related to Gotham audio here in NYC?

[CPTenorII]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

Best advice is to try and test them all objectively.

I wish I had that option. All I have now are Mogami and Canare. How do you feel about silver or silver-plated?

[medearis]

If you can look into hand-making your cables and set aside the time it takes to learn/get it down, you will NOT be disappointed. At all.

You can (essentially) turn a $10 cable into one that the stores sell for $60 in no-time-flat.

[zoom]

Originally Posted by CPTenorII

Can you get these cables pre-made? What are the costs? I am not familiar with this brand. Are they related to Gotham audio here in NYC?

I've bought them here in Switzerland, dont know the relation to Gotham in NYC but you can ask... They have international sales and maybe you can purchase there. (Or online?)

You can get them per meter or spool or customized. Usually this is done by the distributors worldwide I think - individual length and connectors on request...

BTW - this is not a secret:
The GAC-3 (which is double shielded) is also distributed by Neumann under their own brand. They call it IC-3, for sure you have to pay more for the Neumann Logo printed on this cable.
:-)

[5flagsaudio]

Originally Posted by zoom

Gotham GAC-3

+1 for Gotham GAC-3

I've got the contact info for the US Distributor if you'd like it.

[CPTenorII]

Originally Posted by 5flagsaudio

+1 for Gotham GAC-3

I've got the contact info for the US Distributor if you'd like it.

I would love the info for the American distributor. What is special about these cables? They look very similar to others. are they more transparent?

[5flagsaudio]

Double Reussen shielding for one. Also, the cable contains three conductors inside the shield for hot, neutral and ground. That way the shield remains separate from the ground for superior noise rejection. The GAC-3 cable is THE cable of choice for Neumann mics and also comes highly recommended from many experts such as Klause Heyne.

The Gotham GAC-4 is also a great product. It's a "star-quad" type of cable.

Gotham Audio LLC
ATTN: Lewis Frisch
P.O. Box 111 • Nazareth, PA 18064
Phone: (610) 746-9342 • Fax: (610) 746-9360 • Cell: (404) 840-0070
Email: lewis@gothamaudiousa.com

[Dubai]

if you want a very detailed & Dynamic Sound BUT Thin Sound, get Single Conductor.
if you want transparency buy the purest copper OFC over >99.9999% 6N 7N,
if you want fat warmth BUT Less Dynamic, use Stranded conductors.

beware of chinese clones, and fake publicity.
the ear is the best cable tester.

Vovox is usually single conductor,
Analysis + is usually hollow oval conductor.
Most others are stranded.
some are Super Stranded,
Evidence Audio is less stranded.
Teac Esoteric maybe makes XLR cables. with 99.99999999% OFC

some are double shielded, some triple shielded,
some use very nice isolation materials, some dont.
some use very esoteric materials.

the more stranded, the more flexible.
the less stranded, the less flexible.

some are silver plated, some are single core center.

some have aluminium foil shield
some have OFC foil shield
some have aluminium braid shield
some have OFC braid shield
some have aluminium foil + aluminium braid shield
some have OFC foil + OFC braid shield
etc...

some are big AWG, some are super small AWG.
some have big capacitance (dark, noiseless sound), some dont.

THE BEST is PERSONAL TASTE, and MUSIC STYLE Dependant.

Brands like:
Analysis Plus Cables - Home Audio, Home Theater, Pro
Proel DieHard www.proelgroup.com
www.lavacable.com
www.thecableco.com
Evidence Audio
Acoustic Research
Gepco
Have Inc.
etc...


cable differences are more noticeable in high jitter sound systems ("consumer")

Vovox Mic Cable vs Standard Mic Cable spoken-word test (WAV's posted) - you decide!

Guitar cable shoot out - Evidence Audio vs George L vs Planet Waves

Found---> Vovox vs Gotham cables - any sound difference ?
etc...

[sonare]

Originally Posted by CPTenorII

I would love the info for the American distributor. What is special about these cables? They look very similar to others. are they more transparent?

Redco Audio has GAC-3 in black for $.75/ft and brown for $.65/ft

Personally I think your quest is obsessive. I have various lengths of GAC-3, Mogami Neglex, Mogami AES, and longer lengths of Canare Starquad. I am sure the higher capacitance of the Canare is causing a VHF rolloff under certain conditions, but I have never noticed it. Better to obsess on the connectors.

Considering that moving a mic a few inches will change the sound more than what you hear among the grade-A cable you mention I fail to see the point. Buy some good cable and no worries!

Rich

[Teddy Ray]

Never thought I would see any differences in cabling.

that was, until I heard VOVOX mic cables. now I use nothing but.

Vovox Mic Cable vs Standard Mic Cable spoken-word test (WAV's posted) - you decide!

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by CPTenorII

I wish I had that option. All I have now are Mogami and Canare. How do you feel about silver or silver-plated?

If you trust my subjective cabling experiences, than I feel the ACCUSOUND Vintage Quad and Silver Studio Pro that I have used is extremely good sounding cable when compared to what you have. The Quad is slightly clearer in the low mids than Canare Quad I use there at the studio all the time, but the Silver Studio is what I use on all the nice microphones we have. His silver tube mic cable is equally as impressive.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by Dubai

if you want a very detailed & Dynamic Sound BUT Thin Sound, get Single Conductor.
if you want transparency buy the purest copper OFC over >99.9999% 6N 7N,
if you want fat warmth BUT Less Dynamic, use Stranded conductors.

My very first use of this!

[CPTenorII]

Originally Posted by sonare

Redco Audio has GAC-3 in black for $.75/ft and brown for $.65/ft

Personally I think your quest is obsessive. I have various lengths of GAC-3, Mogami Neglex, Mogami AES, and longer lengths of Canare Starquad. I am sure the higher capacitance of the Canare is causing a VHF rolloff under certain conditions, but I have never noticed it. Better to obsess on the connectors.

Considering that moving a mic a few inches will change the sound more than what you hear among the grade-A cable you mention I fail to see the point. Buy some good cable and no worries!

Rich

I record in rooms, so the rules are a bit different. In some rooms, the sound may change by moving the mic, but the overall performance of the system is VERY important- particularly linearity and fast response. Much of the detailed audio content for choral and orchestral work is subject to degradation by all parts of the system, including cables and power. I am looking for the fastest, flattest cable available.

Incidentally, some people have suggested that AES/EBU cable is the best as mic cable. Does that work well?

[Teddy Ray]

my buddy makes nice (silver) cables as well.

nick@nickspicks.com

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

Never thought I would see any differences in cabling.

that was, until I heard VOVOX mic cables. now I use nothing but.

Vovox Mic Cable vs Standard Mic Cable spoken-word test (WAV's posted) - you decide!

That thread show not a single bit of evidence of an audible difference between named cables.

Flawed test.


/Peter

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by Dubai

if you want a very detailed & Dynamic Sound BUT Thin Sound, get Single Conductor.
if you want transparency buy the purest copper OFC over >99.9999% 6N 7N,
if you want fat warmth BUT Less Dynamic, use Stranded conductors.

beware of chinese clones, and fake publicity.
the ear is the best cable tester.

Vovox is usually single conductor,
Analysis + is usually hollow oval conductor.
Most others are stranded.
some are Super Stranded,
Evidence Audio is less stranded.
Teac Esoteric maybe makes XLR cables. with 99.99999999% OFC

some are double shielded, some triple shielded,
some use very nice isolation materials, some dont.
some use very esoteric materials.

the more stranded, the more flexible.
the less stranded, the less flexible.

some are silver plated, some are single core center.

some have aluminium foil shield
some have OFC foil shield
some have aluminium braid shield
some have OFC m-cables-any //snip-snip//

Yes, the ear is THE best tool for audible differences.. And that is way these tests should be done wihtout the eyes involved meaning controlled and blind, prefereably double blind.

Done correctly it becomes clear that what you write in the rest of the post is pure nonsense.


/Peter

[JonesH]

Let the derailment begin!

I use cables that prove themselves to stand to the test of time, and are useful. Right now, most are Sommer cable, which seems OK. Coils neatly.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

We use Neumann, ProCo, Canare and Mogami and to tell you the truth microphone placement and the preamp choice makes a lot more difference than any particular cable. Believe what you want to - hear what you want to but cable is cable and all the "ear candy" that people hear are usually traceable to other equipment, impedance problems or improper setups. If you want to spend a lot of money then go out and purchase the most expensive Monster Cable you can find and pay a kings ransom for it but if you want good mic cable at a reasonable price just use ProCo. It will sound the same.

MTCW and YMMV

[Plush]

One good thing about GAC3 is that when you join the conductor 1 AND the shield to ground, it provides the best rejection of EMI and RF available in any cable. There is an AES paper that discusses the reasons behind this result.

The sound of GAC 3 is neutral and dynamic.

On the subject of using AES cable for all your mic cable this is a perfectly valid way of working. The cost of the best AES cable is higher than GAC3, however.

The benefits of esoteric cables lie in the area of the user's brainpan. I suppose there is nothing wrong in having extra confidence in one's cables knowing that you paid a ton of money for them. Exotic cables may present a different sound from your regular Gotham, Mogami or Canare cables. However, is this difference better sound or only a different sound?

Van den Hul mic cables are also outstanding if you need to spend a lot of money on cables. 100 meters is costing around $2000.00.

For the OP, the source is always the most important factor in determining your sound. So concentrate on your performers, your mics, your mic amps, your converters and then, waaaaaaay down the line, your cables.

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by CPTenorII

I realize this discussion has been hacked to death elsewhere. For now, assume that mic cables DO in fact impact the sound. For a classical guy like me, what are the absolute best mic cables? By best, I mean, flattest, cleanest, quietest. Cables which are entirely invisible and allow for the full performance of mics and preamps. So far, the ones I have run across are:

-Mogami
-Canare
-Monster
-Zaolla
-AccuSound
-KimberKable

What do you all think? Is silver better? What is the most neutral? Thanks.

I would add Apogee Wyde-Eye to the list to check out..
One thing I know about cables is; the shorter the better...

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio

I would add Apogee Wyde-Eye to the list to check out..
One thing I know about cables is; the shorter the better...

I can think one one situation that uis ot true.

A speaker may be designed with a real source impedance in mind. Let's say a amp imnpedance of 0.1ohm and cable of 0.1 ohm. Using avery short cable may give the wrong result.


/Peter

[RobAnderson]

Hi Colin

Copper is used for cables for a reason - it is the best conductor for the tradeoffs of oxidation, maleability, price per pound and so forth. Silver is a slightly better conductor than copper, but we are talking one nano-ohm per meter - this will not give you any real benefits and the difference in price could make a very real difference to your wallet.

Also, it seems to me that silver tarnishes more readily than copper corrodes under the typical circumstances that I use my cables - I don't know what effect the tarnish might have on the performance of the cable over time.

A lot of people look for gold-plated connectors. Almost all audio connectors are made of nickel, which has very good performance as far as oxidation is concerned. Plating them with gold I think is not so good, because you create an additional impedance change at the connector. This can actually cause signal reflection back to the source. While the impact and amount of this is probably negligible, it is still a reality. The only benefit to this is the somewhat better performance of gold in the oxidation department, but unless you are doing a lot of outdoor recording near the sea...

The real things that will have some possible audible impact in cabling will be the AWG of the cable and the quality and purity of the copper used, it's ability to withstand the rigors of use on the road, the reliability of the connector and its ability to be easily serviced, and the quality and type of the shielding.

In these terms, lower gauge numbers (larger wire diameter) may yield some benefits (to a point - ie. using 12 gauge over 22 gauge - going too big will yield solder joint problems - see below), multi-stranded wire will be best for durability and manageability, Switchcraft connectors are durable and mate better with Neumann microphones, but are a little "bulky" - Neutrik connectors are more compact and more easily serviced in the field, but I have had some reliability issues with them on occasion. Look for the very best, most complete braided shielding that you can find.

I don't trust Star-Quad when it is used for redundancy within a single cable. In my experience, these have more problems with cracked solder joints because of the larger overall gauge of wire that has to be crammed into the smaller XLR connector cup. Maybe others here have had better experiences with it than I.

For my money, I have used ProCo mic wires. They have withstood a Yahama baby grand being rolled over them (amongst other horror stories that I will spare you). Their performance is quite good - I have not had any RFI problems or anything of that nature - and the price per foot is reasonable.

That being said, you could have better bang for the buck if you trust your own soldering skills.

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by Audiop

I can think one one situation that uis ot true.

A speaker may be designed with a real source impedance in mind. Let's say a amp imnpedance of 0.1ohm and cable of 0.1 ohm. Using avery short cable may give the wrong result.


/Peter

Sorry Peter but speaker cables it is even MORE true..

[Mark A. Jay]

Originally Posted by medearis

If you can look into hand-making your cables and set aside the time it takes to learn/get it down, you will NOT be disappointed. At all.

You can (essentially) turn a $10 cable into one that the stores sell for $60 in no-time-flat.

Amen. You just need some 'decent' Belden et al cable and some decent XLR connectors (Neutrik et al).

If you'd rather not make your own (for whatever reason...but you really should) then simple XLR cables are a reasonable substitute. Any esoteric cable is in my opinion a colossal waste of money...money that could be spent on gear that actually makes a difference in your recordings (new / additional microphones come to mind).

Yes, this topic has been hacked to death, and I myself have chimed in on a similar thread, so I won't re-hash what I wrote there. However, I am passionate about value, and I truly do not believe that any esoteris XLR cable is worth it.

To do an end-around on all those who will go after me on the subject of guitar cables, yes, those can make a difference, but (as I have pointed out in other posts) that is a high-z network, and capacitance is much more a part of the overall impedance network in such a system (oh and incidentally...this issue (capacitance affecting frequency response and thus, timbre, succeptibility to hum etc)? Well, it is precisely why balanced outputs / differential inputs were created).

[Sheikyearbouti]

I have a Zaolla SPDIF cable and it's made very, very bad. The connectors are so tight that it is absolutely impossible to connect it to anything without risking to break it.

I have as well Zaolla mic cables (which I had to buy for a recording because silver cables were requested by the customer who paid for them and they were the cheapest option at that moment). They certainly sound different from my other cables (Mogami, Canare, Sommer, etc.).
I would describe them as cleaner with bit more details but certainly thinner. The difference however is so subtle that, even if noticeable on studio speakers, in my opinion is not enough to justify the cost of those cables.

I have friends who use other "better" brands and they probably deliver more noticeable results, especially some handmade ones, but they are way too expensive and it is really the last thing I would think of when investing money into equipment.

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by CPTenorII

I record in rooms, so the rules are a bit different. In some rooms, the sound may change by moving the mic, but the overall performance of the system is VERY important- particularly linearity and fast response. Much of the detailed audio content for choral and orchestral work is subject to degradation by all parts of the system, including cables and power. I am looking for the fastest, flattest cable available.

Incidentally, some people have suggested that AES/EBU cable is the best as mic cable. Does that work well?

Move your preamps to the stage before you spend money on esoteric cables that often do not stand the test of time.
The next step is to move the AD to the stage.

Good quality cables will do fine, mogami, vandamme, gotham, sommer etc.

For me, he most audible problems with cables tend to be cable faults, handling noise, RF noise.

Can your cable handle being spiked by a double bass endpin in a live performance without failure?

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio

Sorry Peter but speaker cables it is even MORE true..

Not so.

Since the speaker cable is potentially a source of audible alteration if the cables are long (how long is a string?) and if the speaker impedance is low and non-flat, the speaker designer should state the impedance the speakers should be driven with in order to maintain the intended frequency response.


If you change this to something that has less impedance you will get a change of the intended frequency response.

I hope I make some more sense now, at least I think I got the spelling right this time! :-)


/Peter