Best Mic Cables

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

No. He did not request a double blind test. He was asking for cable recommendations...which is what he got.

Well people certainly have the right to recommend that the cable choice will actually not make a difference. Even assuming you don't care that science is on their side.

[Mark A. Jay]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

And here I thought this was a forum for recording engineers..people that use their ears?

Are you a scientist? Is anyone on this thread a scientist?

If by "scientist" you mean to ask whether or not I am a degreed engineer, then yes, I am (Electrical Engineering).

There are many others on this site who are degreed in the sciences such as mechanical, acoustical, chemical engineering, as well as physcists et al. Does possessing training in a scientific discipline preclude one from having the requisite tools to execute great recording and production? Are they two professions somehow mutually exclusive?

If so you believe that, then you would also likely believe that all those great-sounding microphones, speakers, and mixing consoles (not to mention great plug ins) were just happy accidents that occureed by happestance and not without the work of a lot of people trained to think logically, scientifically, and actually understand the subject matter as borne out through the mathematics of it all.

I am not discounting the importance of listening; I am hastening the arrival of logical thinking (in this tread in particular) and the scientific method to ascertain whether a difference exists or not.

[marvin100]

Originally Posted by Mark A. Jay

If so you believe that, then you would also likely believe that all those great-sounding microphones, speakers, and mixing consoles (not to mention great plug ins) were just happy accidents that occureed by happestance and not without the work of a lot of people trained to think logically, scientifically, and actually understand the subject matter as borne out through the mathematics of it all.

I am not discounting the importance of listening; I am hastening the arrival of logical thinking (in this tread in particular) and the scientific method to ascertain whether a difference exists or not.

Hear, hear. +100.

[Yannick]

I would urge the scientific disbelievers to take 10m of microphone cable, put it on a stage where it is subjected to vibrations and sound and connect it to a measurement system or oscilloscope.

Then see what happens.
Especially when you compare 10 different cables.

[mosrite]

Everyone makes up their own mind based on the evidence that they find.

In that respect there is no argument. Teddy has his own way of choosing his equipment, as does AudioP. They both place importance on different factors when choosing. Both are indeed valid.

I understand the frustration of the more scientifically inclined recordists around here. Seeing the marketing and image of products winning people over when these claims have little standing in the world of physics. It's a different way of looking at the world. However, while I believe in scientific proof I am also open to the fact that not everything can be explained by its methodologies.

In recording, above all else, It's the results that count.

[mosrite]

...I might add that when I auditioned Vovox a few years ago I experienced an RF issue that I was not getting with the same signal chain using my usual, reasonably priced, Van Damme cables. Never got to the bottom of that...

[Yannick]

Of course, everybody here could agree that the most expensive is not always the best

On the other hand, as an example, I sometimes have RF issues with Royer ribbons. Depends on the hall. Other cables = same problem. At one point I had a bleep of 10 seconds every time 1 elevator in the same building was moving ...

MKH mics are always insensitive for this kind of problems, but does that mean they are inherently better or sound better ?

[mosrite]

MKH mics are always insensitive for this kind of problems, but does that mean they are inherently better or sound better ?

No but it means they are probably a lot more practical than ribbon mics when on location (something I ascertained a long time ago).

In fact that is something that is often overlooked when people around here discuss gear, how it practically stands up to the rigors of location recording. Who cares if your fancy bit of equipment sounds amazing in a very controlled studio environment when it falls to pieces after a few concert recordings in less than ideal circumstances.

[rogerbrain]

talking over my Math Calc level

Silver - can tarnish which may effect the HF content of the transmission. I have a silver clad /ofc copper 6' cable and I think it sounds a little brittle compared to just copper

I am in a HIGH RF enviornment. I have some 50' Proco ameriquad and they work well in that they are very quiet and I have no radio on them even with very low output dynamics..

I have a few of the Monster 1000 series and have done a LOT of AB with myself and two other folks trying to fool each other .. hands down the best cables I have.

more open and extended and just more clear..I will say that the the hotter the mic the less difference they seem to make.. (RE20 and SM7 = big diff / AT4050= some diff / line level = not so much)

the best cable debate with continue and I have certainly not tried them all ..but they (monster 1000) are better than the best proco's I have and better than the good cables I have had for 30+ years.. Happy with them

I don't think you can go wrong with the Monster 1000 stuff..

I do make my own cables but I feel that I am not up to the soldering level with silver solder that a production line can achieve..

again not promoting it over other 'high end' cables ..just saying that Mr. Picky (me) is quite happy with them

best

[CPTenorII]

Originally Posted by mosrite

No but it means they are probably a lot more practical than ribbon mics when on location (something I ascertained a long time ago).

In fact that is something that is often overlooked when people around here discuss gear, how it practically stands up to the rigors of location recording. Who cares if your fancy bit of equipment sounds amazing in a very controlled studio environment when it falls to pieces after a few concert recordings in less than ideal circumstances.

No kidding. This has been my issue generally. I am a classical guy working primarily on-site. IT all has to sound great (by great I mean accurate), but it has to stand up too. This is one reason why I asked about the cables in the first place. My Mogamis are already kinked.

[mosrite]

Well in that case I can vouch for Van Damme cables which I have been using for years now with no failures, no kinks, no sound complaints and neutrik connectors that won't bugger up your preamp or mic inputs thumbsup

[Simma Lugnt]

Cables are like never ending story. I have strated my search for "best" cable few months ago and i'm still in that jungle. I have now ordered several Van Den Hul including MC Gold 80€ for 0,5m!
Look what gearslutz made of me

Another vote for GAC-3. I have tried GAC-3 as patch (pre>AD) and it was great clean sounding (not sterile) but maybe not the fatest or "euphonic" as Lyric HG eather. But well worth spending money and i will add few meters of it for my mics, that for sure.

Other good clean cable with fatter lows and sparkle-not harsh (bigger and wider sounding) is Belden 9207. Warning, it's a very stiff cable. I do not recommend Belden 9182/89182 that with respect "moddy Jim" is so fond of... i guess we all hear differently.

I can reccomend using quality cables at least between Pre and AD. You may cut quality mic cable in few shorher pieces and Voila! Thats THE bang for a buck patch cable! Have made several cable tests (that i may post some day) and there is no way i will use "factory made" patch cable again.
I think there is not souch as thing as a best cable, only combination of mic-cable-pres (AD including). You get more 3D and wider soundscape not to mention that it must be easier to mix while tracking with different cables/pres,mics....and converters?


The thing with cables is that the only way to find out is to try it for yourself and hear what suite you best.


Does anybody Eq-ing with cables while tracking?



Btw, i have also made shootout Orpheus vs Lavry Black and must say that these compensates each other really good but thats another story...



It's expensive to be a demanding musican now days, i guess.

Goodluck!

[Tommy-boy]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

We use Neumann, ProCo, Canare and Mogami and to tell you the truth microphone placement and the preamp choice makes a lot more difference than any particular cable. Believe what you want to - hear what you want to but cable is cable and all the "ear candy" that people hear are usually traceable to other equipment, impedance problems or improper setups. If you want to spend a lot of money then go out and purchase the most expensive Monster Cable you can find and pay a kings ransom for it but if you want good mic cable at a reasonable price just use ProCo. It will sound the same.

MTCW and YMMV

+1

-Tom

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by Simma Lugnt

The thing with cables is that the only way to find out is to try it for yourself and hear what suite you best.

Actually not. There's not one single evidence or test that support this. OTOH physics dictates what will happen with a cable and you can easily predict performance from the physical properties.

It's expensive to be a demanding musican now days, i guess.

Actually it has never been cheaper to be a demanding musician than these days.

Goodluck!

Thanks! :-)


/Peter

[Simma Lugnt]

Originally Posted by Sheikyearbouti

Different sound or not, one thing at least in my case is sure...
Of course that I tell to all new customers that I am using the best mics and pres, etc. But nothing impresses them more than the fact that for their recording I am going to use cables made of pure silver. It simply works very well as an advertisement. People speak about it as if it something super exceptional. Maybe I should glue some gems to the connectors and on my headphones as well

I think I raise the bar...

Pure silver doesn't impresses as much as 24k Gold cable

[jupiter101]

to dubai:

hi man,
feels like you've come a long way.

I am into electronics music and right now I am expanding to guitar + voice songs.

To record voice and guitar into my DAW based system I would mainly need an excellent AD converter, a pre and a mic. My DAW is a beefy PC running a juicy Sonic Core card.

So can you help me out in shortlisting the best gear to fit my scope.
I also posses a RODE NT2 mic, a focusrite 1U voice channel.
Right now I am planning on buying a UAD2 to complete the Sonic Core mixing.

many thanks in advance

[rcrowley]

Originally Posted by Yannick

I would urge the scientific disbelievers to take 10m of microphone cable, put it on a stage where it is subjected to vibrations and sound and connect it to a measurement system or oscilloscope. Then see what happens.

When properly loaded with something representing the source (microphone) impedance, and something representing the load (preamp) impedance, you won't see anything. Try it if you are a disbeliever.

[Audiop]

Exactly, solder a resistor at the end of the cable, pick a resistor with a similar value as your mic's. Then connect to a preamp and set gain for a typical performance.

Shake the cable or place a loudspeaker against it and crank the volume. Record the happening and then turn of the speaker and listen to the result.

I did, couldn't hear anything which means that for me cable microphonics is not an issue.


/Peter

[Marlan]

Really, you can't go wrong with either the Mogami Neglex Quad, Canare Quad, Gotham Quad, or Redco Quad.

I have all of them and just purchased some custom made Redco Quads for location work. Great cable. Very supple jacket and easy to work with. Performs just as good as the big names and less expensive.

[Mark A. Jay]

Originally Posted by rcrowley

When properly loaded with something representing the source (microphone) impedance, and something representing the load (preamp) impedance, you won't see anything. Try it if you are a disbeliever.

Precisely. Kudos 'crowley...

As for one of the other post (the one in fact you referenced), in contrast to what the original post asserts, subjecting a cable to vibration would not induce anything in it unless said cable was in the presence of a static magnetic field (by Faraday's Law).

However, as is the case for the cable in a fixed location subject to a varying field (i.e. from AC mains), even if this did occur, in a balanced line, the same voltage (magnitude and phase) would be induced into each line due to the gradient of the field being nearly zero and the fact that each wire occupies the same point in space (for all practical purposes - think Lamda = c/f, and remember that in this case, c = 3E8, making the wavelength enormously long). Since the same (magintude and phase) voltage would be induced into each wire (pins 2 and 3), the differential stage in the pre-amp would null the induced voltage (noise), leaving only the signal behind, and thus do precisely what a differntial stage is designed to do: reject noise, and preserve signal.

This is why balanced sends and differential inputs were invented; they are used everywhere that fidelity and noise rejection must take place.

[Yannick]

I stand corrected. The test is not valid for balanced connections myself

[Foldedpath]

I use mostly ProCo cables for location recording. I avoid the really pricey stuff, partly because I don't hear a significant benefit, but mainly because I try to replace cables used on remotes on a fairly regular basis. ProCo cable is affordable enough that I can demote any suspicious-looking cables to my live PA kit, and replace with new ones. With very expensive cables, I'd have to keep them in service longer.

Maybe that's just a different type of paranoia than worrying about silver vs. copper etc., but the only problems I've ever had with cables have been mechanical (usually connectors, but sometimes the actual cable). Always working with fairly fresh cables and connectors means there is one less thing to worry about.

[CPTenorII]

Originally Posted by sonare

Redco Audio has GAC-3 in black for $.75/ft and brown for $.65/ft

Personally I think your quest is obsessive. I have various lengths of GAC-3, Mogami Neglex, Mogami AES, and longer lengths of Canare Starquad. I am sure the higher capacitance of the Canare is causing a VHF rolloff under certain conditions, but I have never noticed it. Better to obsess on the connectors.

Considering that moving a mic a few inches will change the sound more than what you hear among the grade-A cable you mention I fail to see the point. Buy some good cable and no worries!

Rich

Keep in mind that I do site work- 100 ft. cables are not uncommon. Also, I'm doing room mic'ing, so positioning is a different animal.