What's Happened to All the new Remote Truck Projects

[Soundhunter]

A while ago, the forum seemed to be full of new truck projects like Sound Drifter etc.

Where have they all gone guys??

[tourtelot]

And not being snide here, they probably realized, as did I, that it is a bad investment. Anyone with a Mac and Pro Tools, a couple of preamps or directs from the desk can take the place of an expensive mobile.

No clients mean no return on a large investment.

Anyone care to add to this. I would still love to build a truck if I thought it would pay back. Until then, a fly pack is a better route for me (I think<g>.)

[yrplace]

Originally Posted by tourtelot

And not being snide here, they probably realized, as did I, that it is a bad investment. Anyone with a Mac and Pro Tools, a couple of preamps or directs from the desk can take the place of an expensive mobile.

No clients mean no return on a large investment.

Anyone care to add to this. I would still love to build a truck if I thought it would pay back. Until then, a fly pack is a better route for me (I think<g>.)

All true, but we decided to take the other approach anyway........see

Welcome to Your Place or Mine Location Recording

M3-West

[WVUtubadude]

It seems like you would have to be a pretty big company with pretty big clients to make it worth the investment. Plus most people seem to be going the portable route.

I was actually thinking of converting a truck in to a mobile rig after school, but then I figured a Soundcraft Ghost, a rack of outboard gear, and an HD24 would be more than enough for anything I will ever tackle unless I have some major business expansion.

[Remoteness]

I've been building remote trucks since I was 18 years old.
It's been my live long mission to keep my company growing.
I've designed and build each and every vehicle I own(ed).
I've built five trucks to date with one (Elroy) just about finished.

Elroy, our dual expanding wall truck has taken an insane amount of time to complete for a variety of reasons.

And, if that wasn't enough, we are also in the process of building Cosmo, our sixth truck to date...

It takes time to build a champagne (million plus) truck with beer money.
Borrowing large sums of money for my build outs was never my plan of attack.
I've always used my own bread (or borrowed small money) to make them so.
Using the cash flow for my company's growth has worked well for us; it just takes longer to make happen.


I have enjoyed showing off my build out projects, but it seemed (to me) that no one was interested enough in the progress or process to keep posting our updates...

Then you have the GS police telling you that your pictures are not good enough quality.

To tell you the truth, I don't have to prove anything; I just want to share my experiences with the good folks of this forum, but the extra hassle dealing with it is not worth my time and effort.

[thegreedymonk]

I've worked on lots of cast albums (musicals) over the years and I've seen it go from booking time (7 weeks for Mamma Mia) in big rooms (in London) to parking a mobile truck outside the theatre to the most recent ones just taking a MADI feed from the DigiCo console into a PC running Cubase on the floor by the desk. How can trucks compete with that (ie. free) for live albums?

[boojum]

The transistor surely has changed the audio field and still is changing it. If it is possible to run a powerful PC/MAC with some outboard gear and some hot software to do the job of the truck, why not? If it is possible it is very tempting. And you can use a VW Beetle to work your gig.

Steve is still with the big truck approach and I am sure there are others. I wonder how many of the really big outfits, like the big labels, use trucks for remotes. Just what is the industry doing?

Some, like me, are restricted to what can be carried in and out in two or three trips, including mic stands and cables. In my case it is economics and needs. How about the rest of you??

[JSheltonLogic]

Originally Posted by yrplace

All true, but we decided to take the other approach........see

Welcome to Your Place or Mine Location Recording

M3-West

you guys are my heros.

[dtf]

I really don't think that the advance of technology is the reason for big budget productions getting out of favour. There still is a market for high-quality recordings, e.g. with trucks. As you can see, some forum members here are still busy with their business.

In my opinion, there's been a shift in the willingness to pay for the delivered amount of quality - and, to be honest, many recordings did not always have to be profitable by themselves in the past, as costs would be covered elsewhere.

Having said this, there's, of course, a difference between starting businesses and existing ones. Given it's already difficult for existing recording trucks / studios to survive, a start-up does not seem advisable.

Best,
Dirk

[boojum]

Dirk, et al, I should have been clearer. The transistor has made it possible to shrink the gear down to almost pocket sized. I have a little SONY MZ-RH1 which has better specs than the old Ampex RTR's. Does it sound the same? No. Does it sound as good? Depends. Does tube audio always sound better than transistors? No. Check the $10,000 Stereophile test where Bob Carver made a transistor amp sound identical to any tube amp Stereophile brought him. Stereophile was very embarrassed, gave up the $10,000 and does not much talk about this.

I do believe that good SS gear can sound every bit as good as tube. <Burn the witch; burn the witch!> It just takes a real electronics propeller head to do it. Carver is one of them.

I know there are many respected old-timers who swear that tube/transformer/analog tape is the best way, and some say the only. My personal belief is that judicious skill in the digital realm can yield the same quality. I do believe it is the skill of the engineer as much or more than the gear.

I think there will be a few large mobile rigs around for some time. I do not think it is the only way to get superior results. You also have to consider the source, I am an amateur. But I have been around audio for 55 years now and listened to many, many mantras.

I do want to see Steve's rocket ships as they evolve. And I wish I had the knowledge to understand all of what they do. It is pretty complicated looking in there.

Peace

[LX3]

Originally Posted by dtf

In my opinion, there's been a shift in the willingness to pay for the delivered amount of quality - and, to be honest, many recordings did not always have to be profitable by themselves in the past, as costs would be covered elsewhere.

thumbsup

I run load-in rigs only, and I'm fairly busy. But on a proportion of my jobs it's obvious that a truck would be the best way to go (e.g. any job where it's critical that there's a good live mix, or the jobs where you have to get in and out very quickly. You can certainly track a show with just as much fidelity with a load-in system - it's frequently the same equipment, just one set of racks is on big diesel-powered wheels, the other racks are on small blue ones).

So I'd love to have a truck.

Problem is, most of my clients have to watch their costs very closely these days (economic slump, falling music sales, etc), so getting a truck in is usually outside their budget.

I'm not sure whether this situation has forced truck-owners to cut their rates. If they have, IMHO this makes it even more financially dubious to build a truck right now. I don't see how anyone outside the established companies could ever make a new truck pay for itself. Bear in mind, not only have you got to fit the vehicle out, you've got to maintain it, insure and road-tax it, store it somewhere, secure it... (that'd be an interesting phone call to an insurance company. "And what would you say is the total replacement value of your vehicle?").

Anyhow, sod's law says that if I built a truck, all I'd get is load-in work and all that construction effort would sit out in the rain somewhere, rusting.

That said, I'm still fascinated to hear how others are getting on with their truck builds. I'm only being defensive about it because I'm jealous

[Roland]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I've been building remote trucks since I was 18 years old.
It's been my live long mission to keep my company growing.
I've designed and build each and every vehicle I own(ed).
I've built five trucks to date with one (Elroy) just about finished.

Elroy, our dual expanding wall truck has taken an insane amount of time to complete for a variety of reasons.

And, if that wasn't enough, we are also in the process of building Cosmo, our sixth truck to date...

It takes time to build a champagne (million plus) truck with beer money.
Borrowing large sums of money for my build outs was never my plan of attack.
I've always used my own bread (or borrowed small money) to make them so.
Using the cash flow for my company's growth has worked well for us; it just takes longer to make happen.


I have enjoyed showing off my build out projects, but it seemed (to me) that no one was interested enough in the progress or process to keep posting our updates...

Then you have the GS police telling you that your pictures are not good enough quality.

To tell you the truth, I don't have to prove anything; I just want to share my experiences with the good folks of this forum, but the extra hassle dealing with it is not worth my time and effort.

Whilst I don't recall posting anything regarding peoples truck building threads, I've always found them interesting. Whether it be their equipment philosophy, idea's about layout or just plain "gear porn" I love those threads.

Talking personally Steve, I have often wondered why you haven't posted more about your latest truck projects, I assumed it was because you didn't have the time or the project hadn't progressed any further. Be under no missunderstanding I will always read those threads, as I am sure many other do, just don't want to be bugging the hell out of you to post more pictures, when you are a busy man running a business.

Regards


Roland

[Murton]

I think as the industry has changed more and more smaller mobile trucks in the form of transit vans are appearing. It is much easier to fit out a transit van to carry a few racks, monitors, LCD screens, all your equipment like stands, leads, multicore, power, mics, core and still be able to sit comfortably inside it tracking any size event pretty much.

I see the area for large mobile trucks being mainly broadcast or big festival events. The small festival events, medium shows, indoor events can easily be done with a transit van worth of gear.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Video trucks are always on the road. They cost from 2 mill up. They have to be scheduled over 300 days per year to be profitable and provide a return on the investment. Most are sold before they are ever paid off. Just like in audio, a video truck with nothing but SD equipment would not be worth much in today's market place where everything is going HD.

We seriously looked at building a remote truck. I even went so far as to contact a couple of local custom coach shops about doing a retrofit (boy they really know how to charge). The cost of the unit we were looking at was $19,000.00. I decided that I would have a good friend of mine, who is a carpenter, do all the mods. I figured that with the unit, materials and his cost I could get buy for about $25,000 for the unit and the retrofit. I was planning to stock it with equipment we already have in our Fly Packs so I would not have been spending any money on the equipment. I then did a spread sheet to determine if it would have been at all feasible. The figures were not impressive and showed that we would have to do a lot more on location work than we do now just to pay for the vehicle, its renovation and the operating and maintenance on the truck. We decided it was not worth the time and trouble and funds especially with the local economy in the dumper.

There are a couple of Cleveland gentlemen who have a very nice remote vehicle and I have talked at length with them about the vehicle and they too said that if they were not fully employed as firemen the vehicle could not provide them with a living.

I think that like Steve you have to be near a big city with lots going on to even think of having/building a remote truck and getting enough work to support yourself and pay for the upkeep on the truck.

Kent State (WKSU-FM) had a great remote truck with a lot of good equipment in it which I used on many occasions to record the Cleveland Opera but I think they decided that it was too much money to keep up and got rid of the unit with in the last couple of years and now use fly packs for most of their on location recording.

One problem around this area is that places like WKSU-FM do a lot of the classical recording for free and it is hard to compete with free. The other problem is that a lot of local high schools, churches and colleges do now do the recording for groups using their facilities for an additional fee and that sometimes makes it hard for an outside company to compete with them. Especially when they do things like a "no cables on the floor" rule or having no place for a truck to park or to obtain shore power.

Maybe if the economy improves things will make more sense for the people who want to build a remote truck.

Best of luck to those who have a remote truck and/or are in the process of building one.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I have enjoyed showing off my build out projects, but it seemed (to me) that no one was interested enough in the progress or process to keep posting our updates...

I was certainly interested and kept looking at the updates - I was wondering why there hadn't been any recently.

Please keep posting the updated Steve.

[Soundhunter]

I have recently seen two small Sprinter sized vans fully equipped and for sale in the UK, unfortunately due to London being a low emissions zone, its possible that the daily charge to bring the vans in would be £400.00 per day as they have older engines. Both vans look good, one being analogue, the other based around a digital desk.

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I have enjoyed showing off my build out projects, but it seemed (to me) that no one was interested enough in the progress or process to keep posting our updates...

Then you have the GS police telling you that your pictures are not good enough quality.

To tell you the truth, I don't have to prove anything; I just want to share my experiences with the good folks of this forum, but the extra hassle dealing with it is not worth my time and effort.

Like the feelings echoed by a few other folks here, I've really enjoyed seeing the photographs of your build outs. I'll probaby never have a truck, but I have always been impressed at the quality of your builds.

If the photo police have problems, f-em. fuuck

If you have the time to post, I know I'd certainly enjoy seeing what you've got going...

--Ben

[mpdonahue]

We bought a long body, tall roof, single axle sprinter a couple of years ago and went as far as building some racks that secured to the rail system in the van. However, we've found that for our normal kind of location work it still makes sense to set up a proper control room in the venue. The exception to this is summer festivals, where there is no real space to build up a control room.
We've been doing this long enough that with 2 people we can go from flight cases to a 48 track orchestral date in about 4 hours (Plus, we don't need to get parking permits with all the attendant hassle. ) MADI has really changed the whole dynamic of these recordings. I've done 3 records with the San Francisco symphony this year and the whole kit including stands, console and B&W802's weighs less than 800 lbs. Round trip freight is in the neighborhood of $1500. I'd have trouble just doing the drive for gas and tolls at that price.
The truck business is not for the faint of heart. Only the lean, mean and experienced operator with great business sense will survive the next decade.

All the best,
-mark

[Axiomhead]

We're taking the Steve Remote approach and going about our truck build slowly, and without borrowing loot to build it. She might be on the road next year, or sometime in the next decade, but it sure is fun to work on and we have other projects right now that are paying the bills.

She's arrived!

[Remoteness]

Very strong; more power to you!

We are here if you need us!

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by tourtelot

Anyone with a Mac and Pro Tools, a couple of preamps or directs from the desk can take the place of an expensive mobile.

Originally Posted by boojum

If it is possible to run a powerful PC/MAC with some outboard gear and some hot software to do the job of the truck, why not? If it is possible it is very tempting. And you can use a VW Beetle to work your gig.

Neither a couple of preamps and a computer nor a bunch of transistors can take the place of reliable control room acoustics.


I'm doing the Beetle thing. Yes, you don't need permits. Yes, it's way cheaper, and it can be handled by one person if it's not too large a date. What takes longest to set up/wrap is cables and stands, and these need to be handled in the truck scenario as well.
But I'm stuck to multitracking, as I can't really judge the mix in the temporary "control rooms" I sometimes end up in. This might be right next to stage, just behind a curtain.

In a truck (or sprinter) you always have the same acoustics. You can mix right to stereo, and that's not just a rough mix, but except for a bit of editing it's the final master if you're really good at your job. The only things to come out of the car are stands (not as valuable as a PT rig) and mics (one case). It's more theft-proof. And it makes you look more professional which is an issue at least with the "I have a laptop with Cubase, too" sort of clients.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

<SNIP>

In a truck (or sprinter) you always have the same acoustics. You can mix right to stereo, and that's not just a rough mix, but except for a bit of editing it's the final master if you're really good at your job. The only things to come out of the car are stands (not as valuable as a PT rig) and mics (one case). It's more theft-proof. And it makes you look more professional which is an issue at least with the "I have a laptop with Cubase, too" sort of clients.

All good points which I had not thought of. I am sure the client is way happier seeing a truck pull up with the associated gear inside with the dials and sliders and so on. Also, I had not thought that a final mix could be done at the site. Thats's why I am here: to learn.

Thanks for the insight.

[Remoteness]

As of late I have started to update the Cosmo build-out thread a lot more frequently.

If you're interested you can check it out here > Cosmo has arrived...

I'm really digging the progress on this one.

I may start to show off the Elroy build-out pictures.
That project is inches away from being completed.
Someone said the inside of Elroy looks like a multi-million dollar yacht.
l must agree; the cabin does indeed look mighty fine.