Advise needed: Recording 30 people choir in a small church

[villeman]

Hi All!

This weekend I am recording a men´s choir (30 people) in a rather small church. The mics I intend to use is a pair of Sennheiser MKH40´s SD condensers.

How would you place the mics? Spaced or coincident pair?

I am using a VintageDesign DMP (1073 knockoff) mic-pre.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

[villeman]

Also, has anyone compared coincident to near-coincident miking when miking choirs? I only tried coincident miking and it tends to giva a rather narrow stereo width.

[Mrs. Fairman]

Originally Posted by villeman

Also, has anyone compared coincident to near-coincident miking when miking choirs? I only tried coincident miking and it tends to giva a rather narrow stereo width.

1-2 more meters near to the choir, see the pictures

Klick here -- Sound Example only mp3, original 24 Bit DVD

Klick here -- Sound Example 2 only mp3, original 24 Bit DVD

[AlexLakis]

I've usually had success with an X/Y setup with SDCs. If you're out in front, I like to mic a little above the choir. It helps to know the space.

[villeman]

Thanks guys!

So, a X-Y setup behind the conductor would be your choice?

A VERY basic drawing of the recording space.

[boomed]

I personally prefer ORTF but it is not 100% mono compatable. ORTF gives a wider stereo spead. I also use a non-conventional set up given to me by Jerry Bruck. It is a 10.5 inch spacing at an angle of 107 degees. This is slightly more narrow an angle and slightly further spacing than the normal ORTF.

Give it a try...

[Mrs. Fairman]

Originally Posted by villeman

Thanks guys!

So, a X-Y setup behind the conductor would be your choice?

A VERY basic drawing of the recording space.

Do you listen the 2 examples?

[villeman]

Yes I did, sounds great. What equipment are you using? Except the obvious, Fairman pre´s

Which microphones were used and what is the ball thing?

Thanks!!!

[Mrs. Fairman]

Originally Posted by villeman

Yes I did, sounds great. What equipment are you using? Except the obvious, Fairman pre´s

Which microphones were used and what is the ball thing?

Thanks!!!

I only used this 'Ball thing', no other microphones.
It's a prototype that I developed.
It's made by solid beech wood 'Buchenholz', hand made by a carpenter's workshop, (my design).
With only a little amount of fine selected electronics and short signal ways an two verry litle microphonescapsules left and right ( The ears on the ball).
A mixture between PZM and directly sonic. Only PZM is much too indirectly - only capsules seems to arranged.

The idea is an open and over all stabile stereoimage und full Bodysize on the loudspeakers and headphones, no matter if the acoustic source comes from directly the middle, or a bit from the leftside or totaly from the right side.

I call it 'The one Point recording Procedure'.

[villeman]

looks very hi-tech and impressive

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Fairman

I only used this 'Ball thing', no other microphones.
It's a prototype that I developed.
It's made by solid beech wood 'Buchenholz', hand made by a carpenter's workshop, (my design).
With only a little amount of fine selected electronics and short signal ways an two verry litle microphonescapsules left and right ( The ears on the ball).
A mixture between PZM and directly sonic. Only PZM is much too indirectly - only capsules seems to arranged.

The idea is an open and over all stabile stereoimage und full Bodysize on the loudspeakers and headphones, no matter if the acoustic source comes from directly the middle, or a bit from the leftside or totaly from the right side.

I call it 'The one Point recording Procedure'.

Great Man!! Felicidadez!!
Can you explain a bit further the design and post a closer frontal pic?
Thanks.........Joaquin.

[Remoteness]

As we’ve seen above, there are many excellent ways to approach this kind of recording.

villeman, these ideas may not directly help your particular choir configuration but check it out for future uses. Here's an unorthodox version to recording choir / chorus'. (Part one)

I couldn't find any cool enough pictures so here's a drawing of my dual mic stand combo.

Depending on how large the choir or chorus is I like to add 1 or 2 of these combos per each section.

I usually ask the choir director to place his or her best singers by the mid boom mics. The large boom mics pickup the entire section. I then blend each combo as per my ear. If applicable, the soloist would be miked individually. It gives me more choices during mix time especially when there are other loud sources near by.

When recording choirs, my first choice in mics are Milab VIP50s. I love the sound of those mics on choir. They work very well for me.

Audience mics play an important part in capturing additional room tone from the choir. I have used MKH416s, TLM103s, C414BULSs among others. It depends on what kind of room we're in and what we need to do to get around the sound system and such.

[Remoteness]

Part two:

This is very close to the way we set up and recorded the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir for their Madison Square Garden TV special and home DVD & video a bunch of years ago.

The green figures are the individual members of the choir.

The red figures are the straight stands with extension tubes.
The mics are at least 12" above their heads.
Multiple stands should be used per section for this kind of mic'ing.
And the blue figures are the very large boom stands over each section.
One or two mics can be used per very large stand.
If necessary, we use stereo bars to accomplish this task.

[villeman]

Great examples! Thanks

As things stand right now, I only have gear to cover a high quality two-channel setup, which leaves me with the choice of X-Y or spaced configs in different variations.

[Remoteness]

Yes, food for thought.

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I couldn't find any cool enough pictures so here's a drawing of my dual mic stand combo.

Depending on how large the choir or chorus is I like to add 1 or 2 of these combos per each section.

I usually ask the choir director to place his or her best singers by the mid boom mics. The large boom mics pickup the entire section. I then blend each combo as per my ear. If applicable, the soloist would be miked individually. It gives me more choices during mix time especially when there are other loud sources near by..

Hello Steve. Thanks for the Info!
Could you explain a bit more, what's the relation in between the two mics in the drawing? Is there a specific distance acording to their phase relationship? Are they cardioid? How do you aproach the distribution of the "straight stands with extension tubes" in relation to the stereo field? ....again, is there a rule about Phase coherence?
Thanks one more time............................Joaquin.

[classicalrecord]

just my two cents, but i really prefer ortf or some variation of it to x/y-- i guess i just like the wider soundfield especially with a larger group like a choir... you've got mkh40's and those sound great on choir (actually makes me jealous).
anyway, just my thoughts.
nick

[villeman]

Thanks for all the advise!!!

I did the recording on saturday, but haven´t listened to the recording since. I opted for a standard X-Y config and it sounded great during recording.
It did sound a bit narrow though, but I didn´t have the time to experiment with different settings. I´ll try something different next time.

BTW. The church was quite small and the reverb was a bit short. What would you consider adding to a choir recording. Simulated church verb or something else?

[mtstudios@charter]

If possible (have hade experience doing with minimal and max) try two x/y stage mics and pair of close rooms and distant rooms. Double everything (min) quad is best, you can always eliminate later. Last week I mixed a gospel genre, with a minimal setup (the engineer only used one mic quadripled) was very difficult to get it to sound great. Had to use an aux with a 15ms on left and 30ms delay on right to make it sound bigger. I fought it on every song. You will be very happy if you have the churches ambience. GOD LUCK, no pun intended.

You can probably rent 4 mic pres and 4 mics for under a $250. I bet the church would help out. API's and Neve's are usually about $40 a day and those mics or something similar would be $20, If you tell them it is for a church they might even give you a break. It would be well worth it. It would save them money when it comes mix time, and and ask , can you make it bigger?

www.bluethumbproductions.com