Tips for bringing in jobs during these tough economic times.

[Mobiltrackpat]

Howdy folks,
For the past decade I worked in Telecommunications after originally giving up my aspirations to be a audio engineer in the 90's. Since I was layed off last year and have been fortunate enough to have made, and saved some good money over the years, I figured now is time for a change. So I started a Mobile Recording business this year. I am not looking to make a six figure salary but I'd like to be able to make a decent living and also be around more for the new born that we have recently welcomed into the house hold. I have been advertising at local collagues and in Craigslist for Mobile Multi-track, and Symphonic recordings and it just dosen't seem like their is much demand for remote recordist. After the 1st month I tried offereing free time and then I would just sell the recording for a nominal fee after the session. I have also been working out of a few night clubs in the area's trying to generate business with the bands directly. I have made alot of contacts but very little money over the past few months. In addition, I have started marketing DVD production services since there seems to be more of a demand for that. I have offered this service for free (then sell the DVD's to recoup my cost) to approximately 40 schools and have only managed to book a few gigs. I am putting alot of effort, cash, and time into this and my wife is patiently standing by my side but I can't continue too much longer without seeing real results. Any tips or words of widsom are much appreciated.

[rose1820]

Originally Posted by Mobiltrackpat

Howdy folks,
For the past decade I worked in Telecommunications after originally giving up my aspirations to be a audio engineer in the 90's. Since I was layed off last year

who did you work for. im about to get laid off in the same industry and am also trying to get back into the audio industry, small world huh.

[NorseHorse]

If you get things moving decently in a year, you are lucky. It seems that most of the folks on this forum had things grow over time. So... this year you might record four schools. Next year it might be twelve. Then twenty. And then you'll still be wondering when you will be making enough to support yourself.

Where are you located?

[Mobiltrackpat]

Norse-I am in the Los Angeles Area,
Rose- I have worked for several companies including a GC most recently and a LV Company Called First Fire before that.

[sonare]

It's all based on relationships-- and if you don't know musicians or other engineers it will be VERY tough if not impossible. You also didn't talk much about experience. And if you give away your work people will assume that it isn't worth much.

My advice is to see if Ben Maas is willing to take you as assistant on jobs where you can be a gofer and learn about it all. Ben owns Fifth circle in LA and is often on Gearslutz.

Rich

[Thomas W. Bethe]

The whole field of remote audio production is going nowhere fast. It is worse in some parts of the country better in others but NO ONE, that I know, is making any real money off remote recording. I use to work for a company that had their remote van on location almost every week or weekend. That stopped being the case about 10 years ago and they sold off the van and all the equipment since it was not being used.

Most groups that we work with now want a video recording along with the audio recording and want to offer the parents and other audience members a DVD as well as a CD of the event. So if you are setting up a new company you may want to get involved with video from the get go.

Instead of hiring someone to come in and record many churches and schools are doing the recording themselves with their own AV crew. The quality is probably not as good as someone coming in to do the recording but the school or the church can use the services to generate additional revenue and as a training ground for students. One church we were in recently has a NO CABLES ON THE FLOOR policy which makes setup for an outside recording person a bit difficult. The church, on the other hand, has everything built in so they don't violate their own rules. I guess they are trying nicely to say NO OUTSIDERS needed.

Networking is everything and if you want to get more jobs start by finding out who is the conductor or director of the local high school's choir and bands are and make it a priority to get to talk to these people and tell them about all the services you offer. They may already have someone who is working with them so you have to offer them something unique or there may be no reason to change. Also go to Music Educators Association meetings which are held one or more times a year and rent a booth and have some examples of past work and brochures and or/business cards you can hand out.

Today with the all-in-one card recorders more and more directors or conductors are simply taping one of the units to a music stand and doing the concert recording themselves. This is not optimum but the quality is OK and with some basic post production they can have a product that is acceptable to their students and parents. Couple the recorder with a simple free editing program like Audacity and a one to one CD copier and an Epson or HP printer with on CD printing capability and they can turn out "acceptable" professional looking CDs for very little money.

More and more of the on location work it is becoming a do it yourself operation and the need for a outside person to come in and do the recording and produce the CDs and DVDs is fast disappearing.

As to doing work for free. Don't do it You will live to regret the decision when you start being known for giving your services away and once you start down that road it is hard to start charging. The best idea is to give the client some value added services and not charge for them. Things like a free CD for the conductor and/or school library, fancier packaging, an extra 5 CDs that you don't charge for so the school can make some additional money.

Best of luck and it is a very long road so don't get discouraged if everything is not going your way immediately.

[Plush]

For the OP--

I would never try to start out in the business right now on the west coast.
There simply is not enough business to go around and the established recordists are already slitting their own throats to try to grab any business that is out there. Fees are in a race to the bottom rung of the ladder.

My commentary is specific to Los Angeles and San Francisco where other types of music besides acoustic/chamber/orchestra/folk dominate.

Why fight it? Just keep it as a hobby.

[Mobiltrackpat]

Originally Posted by sonare

It's all based on relationships-- and if you don't know musicians or other engineers it will be VERY tough if not impossible. You also didn't talk much about experience. And if you give away your work people will assume that it isn't worth much.

My advice is to see if Ben Maas is willing to take you as assistant on jobs where you can be a gofer and learn about it all. Ben owns Fifth circle in LA and is often on Gearslutz.

Rich

I here you. I might talk to him. I might be interested in sitting with some other engineers to see how they approach things. But as far as being an apprentice I am a bit old for that and my experience and knowledge base are a bit beyond that.

[Mobiltrackpat]

Thanks for the tips guys. I quess I need to be realistic and start thinking about options for a day job. However, I'm going to stay at it in the meantime and but work toward finding something that will pay the bills but still give me time to pursue my passion. I'd like to find something in audio but after making 80K+ per year it is hard to give into the idea of working a day job for $10-15 per hour!?

[sonare]

Originally Posted by Mobiltrackpat

I here you. I might talk to him. I might be interested in sitting with some other engineers to see how they approach things. But as far as being an apprentice I am a bit old for that and my experience and knowledge base are a bit beyond that.

I HEAR you too-- and perhaps your attitude is the real problem. I started my business at age 51 in a city that could never be called "major"-- but learning from whomever would let me come along and either carry things or brew coffee was a big piece of the puzzle.

So far you have not mentioned your experience and knowledge base. You would do well to seek out the best to learn from-- and Ben is a superb classical engineer in LA. Your choice.

Rich

[fifthcircle]

I don't have time for folks that are too self-absorbed to learn.

It is a rough world out there and nobody takes free work seriously. Trust me, it just doesn't work that way. You get your gigs in this town by forging relationships with your potential clients. Get to know the musicians, get to know the people that run the ensembles. Break your back for at least 10 years if you want to get to the point where you can earn a living. I got my start by apprenticing for *years* and being a performer. Eventually folks decided that while they liked my clarinet playing, they liked my recordings more.

--Ben

[John Moran]

getting laid off and then hoping to find paying work in a what has been and continues to be the collapsing industry of music production is -not- a good plan.

i know that sounds harsh, but the reality -is- harsh.

(this is said with all manner of good intent, it really is. BOL)

[Mobiltrackpat]

Thanks for your input while some of if came off a bit harsh I understand the content and where it was comming from. I have listed my reply's below each quote:
Sonare wrote:I HEAR you too-- and perhaps your attitude is the real problem. I started my business at age 51 in a city that could never be called "major"-- but learning from whomever would let me come along and either carry things or brew coffee was a big piece of the puzzle.
Sonare you might be right. Perhaps my expectations are not realistic and because of this I am a bit on the nervous side since I have shelled out a bit of money for the business and I have a family to provide for.
　
Ben wrote: I don't have time for folks that are too self-absorbed to learn.
Ben I think this comment is a bit harsh. Before reading this post I was about to send you an email asking if I might be able to volunteer some time on your projects. However, when I comment on my age and experience and say i don't want to be an apprentice I simply mean I cannot afford to take a minimum wage job as a runner at a studio and work my way up. I have too much overhead to be able to or want to do this at this point in my life But despite your comment,I would still like to lend a hand on any of your projects at no cost to gain additional experience.

John Moran wrote:getting laid off and then hoping to find paying work in a what has been and continues to be the collapsing industry of music production is -not- a good plan.
John, I knew things would be difficult and I didn't expected to see much of an income for the 1st 3-6 months. However, what concerns me is a lack of interest in the services not a lack of money. If I had more people wanting my services but couldn't afford to pay my cost I would be more positive about things. But it seems that people just don't want to pay for anything, and they think because they have protools and a cheap interface they can do it themselves as good as those with real experience and skills. As far as the plan, I figured if I sat around and thought about it and consulted alot of industry professionals I probably wouldn't have went through with it because the outlook would be to grim. However, I am happy that I have pursued it. I've followed my interest and if it dosen't pan out I can do it as a hobby as someone wrote and at least I tried it. I haven't spent any money I couldn't afford to loose I have and continue to learn more and more as I go in an area of work that I will always be interested in. So no real regrets. Maybe just some concern, and confussion since I don't know what I want to do next if and when taking a day job becomes nessecary.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Mobiltrackpat

[
John, I knew things would be difficult and I didn't expected to see much of an income for the 1st 3-6 months. However, what concerns me is a lack of interest in the services not a lack of money. If I had more people wanting my services but couldn't afford to pay my cost I would be more positive about things. But it seems that people just don't want to pay for anything, and they think because they have protools and a cheap interface they can do it themselves as good as those with real experience and skills. As far as the plan, I figured if I sat around and thought about it and consulted alot of industry professionals I probably wouldn't have went through with it because the outlook would be to grim. However, I am happy that I have pursued it. I've followed my interest and if it dosen't pan out I can do it as a hobby as someone wrote and at least I tried it. I haven't spent any money I couldn't afford to loose I have and continue to learn more and more as I go in an area of work that I will always be interested in. So no real regrets. Maybe just some concern, and confussion since I don't know what I want to do next if and when taking a day job becomes nessecary.

We got hired to do a job for a local church of an important choral event. The person who hired me is a very good friend. She called me when the conductor of the event said he could record it on his ZOOM recorder. She was afraid of what it might sound like. We did the recording, did the editing and produced a CD which we then made copies of for the church and people in the choir. Everyone loved the recording EXCEPT the conductor who said "I could have done as much and it would not have cost us anything" I beg to differ but that seems to be the way people today think. "I can do it cheaper myself and it will sound GREAT because I did it". I have heard some of the recordings this director did of Sunday morning services and if you like hearing only part of the choir, if you like lots of noises, if you like distorted or over compressed recordings you will LOVE what this guy does. To him it all sounds GREAT because he has convinced himself that it does. To do anything worthwhile you have to be able to self critique your work and one thing that seems to be missing from many people's work is their own self critique. I would not be able to direct a choir as well as this director and would not even try yet he thinks what he does with his ZOOM recorder is all top drawer stuff. I am sure he can here a one cent pitch problem but he cannot hear how bad his recordings sound.

We did a recording at the local community college. The school paid for the recording. The reason we got asked to do the recording was because it was the world premier of a piece by a prominent local composer. The recording came off fine and the conductor and the composer were well pleased. The community college normally does the recording but they use two shot gun microphones from the audio console to do the recordings. I have not heard any of their recordings but assume they cannot sound too good. I think today in the world of MP3s and compressed audio and video on the WWW people don't really know good sound from bad. As long as they have something they seem to be happy.

Today with Protools, a laptop, two one hundred dollar microphones, some mic cable and microphone stands (less that a $1000.00 investment) anyone can say they are a recording engineer. The proof as always is in the final product. The cream will always rise to the top and the sh#t will always sink to the bottom. The problem today is that many people seem to think that their sh#tty recordings are INCREDIBLE and since many of these people are like the choir director in the above example they will convince themselves and others that what they can do for free sounds good. That is what is killing the on location recording business more than anything.



YMMV

[therecordinghous]

the key to being successful today, i believe, is not the money you make, but the money you don't spend. the biggest reason i am able to keep going right now is that the only bills i have is a cell phone bill and car insurance.

i am not saying that to brag at all, but keeping your costs very low is essential to survival right now...

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by Mobiltrackpat

　
Ben wrote: I don't have time for folks that are too self-absorbed to learn.
Ben I think this comment is a bit harsh. Before reading this post I was about to send you an email asking if I might be able to volunteer some time on your projects. However, when I comment on my age and experience and say i don't want to be an apprentice I simply mean I cannot afford to take a minimum wage job as a runner at a studio and work my way up. I have too much overhead to be able to or want to do this at this point in my life But despite your comment,I would still like to lend a hand on any of your projects at no cost to gain additional experience.

Gonna be blunt here. If that is what you meant, than that is what you should have said. I certainly understand the feeling- I am way beyond the point of being able to afford to do entry level work, with a mortgage, equipment, etc... it is a tough thing to do. If you'd like to shoot me an email, go ahead, but my season is winding down here and there isn't a lot going on. I'd be happy to chat at some point, though (as I have been over the years with lots of Slutz)...

Plush pretty much nailed it with the description of working in LA. I'm one of the fortunate ones with some of the folks that I get to work with. That being said, I do plenty of work that is decidedly "unsexy" as I need to pay the bills. I work on staff at a couple halls doing sound reinforcement at a low to mid level and high-level staff work at another hall. None of it, though, pays anywhere close to what my own business pays.

There are two engineers that get the vast majority of the work in town. There are a couple more of us that get some high-end work, but often end up doing a portion of it outside of LA. At the low end, there is brutal competition, much of it coming from students that have an M-Box and a couple low-end mics.

I'm glad that I am where I am- it is still a very tough gig, but it is rewarding. Moving up the ladder is very difficult and I really can't imagine having to start over seeing where things are these days.

--Ben

[rumleymusic]

Yep, Plush description of the west coast market is dead on accurate. It is a bad time to start. It takes at least 3-5years of constant hassling to even see a little cash flowing in.

Any major organization will already have an established engineer and will not switch for anything. You would have to wait till one retires, moves away, or dies. And even then the competition to fill the void is stiff.

[Jay Kahrs]

I would NEVER advise anyone to get into the recording business with the thoughts that they're going to make a lot of money, and especially not with the thought that they're going to start making money instantly.

It just doesn't work like that.

Even now, with over a decade under my belt there are still plenty of dead times... months where there's two or three days booked. But then there other times I've running on all cylinders for 60 or 90 days pretty much straight. Ebbs and flows... always has.

I'm sure LA is just as saturated as NY and most other major metropolis regions... frankly even though I'm 30 minutes out of NYC I haven't had a gig there in a long while. Instead most of my work comes from well outside of the area... PA, CT, MD etc. Last summer I had one series of gigs that had me going three plus hours (one way!) up to CT every other week. I know for a fact that Steve Remote, Kooster and everyone else who's successful in this business does the same thing... if we relied on the local area for work we'd all be homeless.

If you need a way to support your family and lifestyle and you're qualified to do anything other then hang microphones then you should do it. I don't mean that as a slag... hell, if I was capable of doing anything else besides hanging microphones I'd do it myself because there's certainly no steady income or guarantees in this business.

Unfortunately I'm pretty much qualified to do one of two things... hang microphones or flip burgers so the choice is pretty easy over here!

Best of luck with your endeavors,

[JonesH]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

We got hired to do a job for a local church of an important choral event. The person who hired me is a very good friend. She called me when the conductor of the event said he could record it on his ZOOM recorder. She was afraid of what it might sound like. We did the recording, did the editing and produced a CD which we then made copies of for the church and people in the choir. Everyone loved the recording EXCEPT the conductor who said "I could have done as much and it would not have cost us anything"

I was thinking, with the zoom recorders being so cheap, one could easily invest in one. We could either put it at the always-popular first bench position, or be a bit more serious and fasten it to the main mic stand and run it on batteries. Then show the two recordings side by side the next time someone argues. Plus you get a (seriously low end, but anyway) backup recorder . Be careful not to place it too well, we want to show off what the home-brewed result is most likely to be

[noamraz]

Question to all of you guys-
I've been doing live recordings for few years now, steady growing, VERY interested in Classical recordings but 99% of the time I'm doing recordings of rock/pop shows in small/medium clubs.

What's going on in the last 2-3 years is that digital consoles @FOH/Monitors are taking place in recordings, and so i constantly learning every aspect of these kind of recordings via the majority of those systems (Interfacing, Signal flow, etc..)

The cost of setting a separate system than recording via the digital consoles is terribly higher.
In most cases it's either:
A. Bringing whatever recorder that will do the job (PTHD for D-Show, Laptop with MADIface for consoles with MADI outputs)+Ambience/Crowd microphones

or

B. Setting Splitters+Preamps+Recording system

I don't have anything against costumer that does not have the budget for my personal rig, I ask you guys if you feel this "movement" or is it only happens here?

The problem one my side is that some of those digital systems are not designed for redundant operation for start and the fidelity is questionable most of the time but the spectrum of budgets for live recordings is different now with these "cheap" recordings.

Would love to hear your thoughts.. Do you have the same situation on your-side?

[audibell]

Originally Posted by noamraz

The problem one my side is that some of those digital systems are not designed for redundant operation for start and the fidelity is questionable most of the time but the spectrum of budgets for live recordings is different now with these "cheap" recordings.

The question for the original poster still remains what do you have that I want? Until you spend most nights out, hanging out where musicians, performers & their managers chill, you're not going to know. 20 nights a month checking out the "scene' ain't as fascinating now as it was when I was 25, it's work without much pay. It's kind of like investing in art - you'd better like those paintings and microphones when the market changes direction.

An interesting wrinkle in the "no cables" aspect is the "no mic stands" dictum - how do you record an orchestra with no stereo-pair stand out front or flanks and no permission/insurance to hang anything? It then becomes fortunate that the management accepts that the sound will not be optimum - their call.

I have seen spectacular failures with newly-installed digital systems. It was analog city after that but fewer splits during the show. I have had conversations with musicians & conductors dissatisfied with the results they get with their Zoom H4/H2s - it's a dictaphone on steroids in the wrong hands - in experienced hands its a highly-portable DAT, a bit flimsy and inscrutable to operate but a useful 2-trk tool.

Musicians I speak to aren't getting what they want from 24-trk FOH recordings, especially from harried Union operators. Life isn't fair but there's still opportunity for quality workers - and once the file sharing/stealing gets controlled at the federal/ISP level, revenues will come back, followed by healthier budgets.
Good luck
WalterT

[joelpatterson]

My thoughts are that: there is nothing (as in, "nothing") that can take the place of a skilled person who has a keen appreciation of what it takes to make a recording sound good.

I tell ya-- I've seen supposedly "pro" guys with their Metric Halos and blah blah blah, and just recently got hired to duplicate recordings from the most utterly state-of-the-art-bar-none premier performance venue around here, and guessy whatty-- all this superb gear, in the hands of people who lack the crucial inspiration and elan, it's all wasted.

You feel like you just want to slap these guys across the face:

"what are you doing?
why does the piano sound like it's floating somewhere out by the rings of Saturn?
why do the loud sections sound all hashy and garbly?
what in the high holy hell is the problem?"

True quality in the final product-- that's something these "cheap" or "automatic" approaches will never, ever get. And, that's just gotta be your bottom line-- "if you let me do it my way, you'll end up with something that's gonna hold up and gonna last." If the customer honestly, truly doesn't care about that... well, the customer's always right, so they say.

[philper]

To the OP, back in May: any freelance job that involves something that the culture perceives as cool will always require that you do (and continue to do) a lot of probono and lowbudg work to establish yourself. Getting a toehold in recording has become immensely more difficult in the last 10 years, with the flooding of the market w/ cheap recording equipment and the proliferation of "recording schools" creating thousands of newly minted "recording engineers" every term. Music recording never was a big field among those doing it full time profitably, and it remains so today. You may have to accept that recording may never be more than an occasional source of employment for you--do you love it enough to accept it on those terms? Would you do a whole lot of low- or no-pay gigs that are possibly of music you don't like w/ people who might be slimeballs? Will you continue to network and hang in even when your calendar is empty? Would you subsidize it by working other sorts of jobs to make a living? I believe that that is what is required, at least at the beginning.

phil p

[boojum]

Originally Posted by philper

To the OP, back in May: any freelance job that involves something that the culture perceives as cool will always require that you do (and continue to do) a lot of probono and lowbudg work to establish yourself. Getting a toehold in recording has become immensely more difficult in the last 10 years, with the flooding of the market w/ cheap recording equipment and the proliferation of "recording schools" creating thousands of newly minted "recording engineers" every term. Music recording never was a big field among those doing it full time profitably, and it remains so today. You may have to accept that recording may never be more than an occasional source of employment for you--do you love it enough to accept it on those terms? Would you do a whole lot of low- or no-pay gigs that are possibly of music you don't like w/ people who might be slimeballs? Will you continue to network and hang in even when your calendar is empty? Would you subsidize it by working other sorts of jobs to make a living? I believe that that is what is required, at least at the beginning.

phil p

To embelish this and Plush's comment that doing this as a hobby may be the better bet: that is what I am doing. I am in an economically depressed area in the middle of a huge recession. There are no real recording engineers around here. There are a few folks with laptops and Chinese mics. Some established groups have good mics and gear but mostly for performance purposes. So when I do recording I am not taking bread off someone's table. There is little bread to go around in my area so I am careful about that.

I have been at this not quite four years. I have some "clients" who love my work. It is getting better. Objective listeners like it, too. I do my homework (Eargle, Katz, Bartlett, et al) and watch this forum like a hawk. Will I ever get my investment back? I doubt it. But I am having a lot of fun doing what I enjoy. There is the constant challenge to learn new technique and improve the old. And there is the pride of working at the venue to get the best capture and being able to mix and master it into a pretty darned good recording.

I have no illusions about "going pro." There is not the demand where I live. I am in an isolated community. I am retired so I have a modest cash flow. It is not much but I can get by on it if I eat beans eight times a week. I am really enjoying myself.

If you can approach recording like this you would be likely to have the same success. If you need the cash flow, I would agree that finding work in another field would be a better bet.

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by philper

Would you do a whole lot of low- or no-pay gigs that are possibly of music you don't like w/ people who might be slimeballs?

LOL!

It's been a while since we've heard from the original poster.
I wonder how he's doing.

How 'bout an update?

[Boschen]

I don't know the details of your previous job, but I can virtually guarantee you will find better work in the telecom industry than you will forging off to try your hand at sound recording, especially if you did work with your hands on some kinda infrastructure. If you spent all your time on some proprietary software at a desk, then things may be different, but all the people I know in telecom are busy as all hell, at least out here in the Western states. I install and work on lots of commercial telecom infrastructure, so on that at least I can offer an informed opinion.

Stick with the recording work, and develop your skills, but don't expect it to pay your family's way, now or in the distant future. Not worth the risks. Do it because you love doing it, because you may have a chance to create some actual art at some point, not because you need money.

[Gerax]

I have seen my mobile recording (and post, editing and mixing) business get to an almost grinding halt for a number of reasons. Tough economics being certainly the major: in Italy the craft of being a recording engineer in the music field isn't really seen as a real job...at least it's not really understood. And thus the lack of a real category (even in the tax department regard), you're pretty much on your own, like every enterpreneur. This creates several issues...
The lack of money for orchestras, chamber groups and music institutions alike really is having a big impact on the recording business, and with government cutting costs on music and culture the situation is even worse (but that's another story...).
Bottom line, very few people ask for recording services unless you are some corporate major service working for broadcast channels...
Small ensembles and up and comers would like to have a quality recorded product to market themselves...but they allot the budget I'd ask for 1 or 2 days of work, for the whole project because they really don't understand all the work that's involved...and this brings me to point two: the fact that now musicians starded (to my extreme horror) the practice of DIY recording with a laptop and a few other gadgets...Few people understand the difference between a recording done with my skills and my gear and the one done with mediocre gear and even more mediocre skills...and if they do tell the difference they really don't care in this tough economics climate...if it's good enough...then it's good...really few people still aim for true quality. At least in the middle to low range of the market.

That's the reason why I chose to radically restructure my work, and started working in a pro audio software company as a product manager. I can really take advantage of my 10 years engineering skills as a product manager in the same field. I have a steady income with the benefits of an employment position, I'm learnong lots of new and really incredible things that are making me an even better engineer, and I have the spare time to pursue some side recording projects, quality ones that I enjoy musically and financially.

Sometimes you have to look yourself straight in the face and decide if you want to continue pursue a dream, if you did all that you could to make it happen, and evaluate what your priorities are. Mine are to keep doing a decent living, allowing myself the possibility to raise a family, buy a real house and all that stuff...while being able to work in a field that I love.

To me, as I look back to when a decided to make the switch, it's been the wisest and best move I could have made.

L.G.

[mattg082]

I'm seeing studios doing video/graphics and post production as well as recording just as much. There is money in post production everywhere even in small towns there is a need. Knowing how to work a camera and final cut can really help pay the bills when recording is not happening. I wanted to do the recording thing and went to college to get a communications degree mostly in post production. Might not be what I wanted to do but there is work knowing how to do a bit of everything. Plus it's fun, creative and I do get the chance to work on some cool audio projects time to time in the office and freelancing.