How far away is Dsd or sacd?

[Seti808]

When do you guys think dsd or sacd will be a thriving market?


2 years 5 years?


What is your guys take on going dsd right now Sonama, Pryamix etc...

[DrDeltaM]

Originally Posted by Seti808

When do you guys think dsd or sacd will be a thriving market?


2 years 5 years?


What is your guys take on going dsd right now Sonama Pryamix etc

Dare I to say: never?

[Switchcraft]

I second the never.

[Seti808]

Care to explain a bit more?

[Sounds Great]

I have a modest collection of SACD's and they are awesome. The use of DSD in multi-tracking and mastering seems to be on the rise as well. So to those that say it is dead I say dfegad

[DrDeltaM]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

I have a modest collection of SACD's and they are awesome. The use of DSD in multi-tracking and mastering seems to be on the rise as well. So to those that say it is dead I say dfegad

I didn't say it was dead, I just said I don't see it become an important market

The largest part of all people don't care for quality...

[themaidsroom]

i think in that small audiophile market, people are still buying more
vinyl than sacd.....




- jack

[7rojo7]

DSD can live without SACD, which is now just a vehicle as were all mediums used prior to it.
The flash card seems to be a rather convenient form of archiving, a bit messy in the end.
I don't imagine an amazingly long swansong for CD or Optical, try finding a phonograph.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

I didn't say it was dead, I just said I don't see it become an important market

Ok, I over-reacted. stike

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

The largest part of all people don't care for quality...

Unfortunately this is true.

[jomo1234]

Sadly, for the average consumer, audio quality is second place to ease of use / portability. That being said, with the extraordinary rise of ITunes/MP3's, etc, I think we will see digital delivered audio as the #1 consumer format in less than 5 years. Physical product (whether CD, SACD/DV Audio or any other future format) will become the niche market, as vinyl and 24 bit consumer audio formats are now.

Keep in mind that an entire generation of kids who are just entering their formative musical years have only known MP3 as the preferred format of their peer group. The concept of music "ownership" has morphed from the era of LPs and CDs to where tangibility is of minor or of no importance. The idea of carrying an entire music collection on a small player supercedes any notions about audio quality. MP3 is of a high enough fidelity for most listeners..and the proof is in the sales as we see CD sales drop and digital delivery increase in market share every fiscal quarter since it's inception

Certainly, as players increase in sophistication and storage ability, we will see the main codecs become higher in quality...perhaps even to the point of digital delivery of 24 bit audio....the future is only a click away

[Duardo]

I don't see SACD ever taking off...it looks like it peaked a few years ago. The local Best Buy used to have separate SACD and DVD-A sections...they got smaller and smaller until eventually they merged, and that section keeps getting smaller and smaller as well. As I understand it the players didn't sell well either, not even the cheap universal player that everyone got excited about a couple years back. If anything the trend is towards lower-bandwidth CD-quality audio for online distribution, not anything higher-resolution...

As for on the production side of things, maybe when the computational horsepower is there to process DSD in real time it will take off, but if PCM keeps getting better as well maybe it won't...

-Duardo

[cdog]

Great post jomo.

SACD is really cool.... it is here, now.

The problem is everyone else is over there, on their Ipods.

[Switchcraft]

I just dont think people are as interested in 5.1 sac D or DVDA as much as they are into conveneince and integration of Audio/video and text compressed into one digital file. Soon you will buy, an albums single video, singles remixes, the whole album, the digital art displayed on portable players, lyrics, band bio, linked reviews, touring schedule all integrated into one .xxx file sold by some huge mega corp. Until then things like this are just objects to gigle about.
Tube CD players, mwhahahaha
http://store.acousticsounds.com/brow...tion=equipment

[studio1117]

Well having done several sessions where the Sonoma system was used I can say it is an excellent format. It sounds great.

It's really funny though. I think of it as a tape machine, but I come across threads where people want to be able to use plug-ins etc and they fault the system for not being "pro tools". Well folks pro tools it's not (thank god) The sonoma system is a great sounding format, it's a bit pricey for newsters who have never had to buy a new 2" machine with Dolby, but you have to ask yourself on that point...what is good sound worth to you? I don't think it's that expensive. In my opinion (although I still record on pcm systems like everybody else) It's the only acceptable non tape format there is.

As for it's selling ability, I must agree with most of the other posters on this, it's possibly a day late as far as the sacd's are concerned, although my friend Chad's place has a ton at www.acousticsounds.com

The system itself is still a worthwhile purchase in that it's an excellent format to start with. I mean you can't play a 2" tape on a cd player can you? But you can still record to it for its ability to store linear sounding music. Well think of the sonoma as a clean 2". A great place to store your very linear sounding music. Now yes, 2" tape as well as DSD will probably end up going to cd or DVD-a. But how many discussions have been had on the merit of using a better resolution master format as a starting point? Millions...billions?

In my opinion, yes, Sony (Super audio center) should give us all a system and make money on the other side with sales of SACD's, but I'm afraid we are probably not going to be receiving a free system anytime soon and they are probably a little late to compete with 3 trillion dvd players in circulation now that play dvd-a.
The basic system though is still great and should become the new 2" for today. We can let -pro-tools go the way of the consumer and we can hold our heads up high again and say " I'm a man(or a woman) I no longer play with consumer toys with plug-ins(that really don't sound like the real things they imitate) I have a huge console, a big mic, huge racks full of gear with lights & and a big room" & " no. You can't make good records at home with that shit" ( unless you spend the bucks to buy a sonoma system) Lets take back the industry...let's make everybody have a reason to come back to a studio....let's remember why we got into this bizz...It's good sound....good sound....good sound.
Ok now go beat up a kid with a laptop and a sound card and a cheap mic and order your Sonoma system today!!!!!

Aaron Householter
studio1117

[themaidsroom]

Originally Posted by studio1117

The basic system though is still great and should become the new 2" for today. We can let -pro-tools go the way of the consumer and we can hold our heads up high again and say " I'm a man(or a woman) I no longer play with consumer toys with plug-ins(that really don't sound like the real things they imitate) I have a huge console, a big mic, huge racks full of gear with lights & and a big room" & " no. You can't make good records at home with that shit" ( unless you spend the bucks to buy a sonoma system) Lets take back the industry...let's make everybody have a reason to come back to a studio....let's remember why we got into this bizz...It's good sound....good sound....good sound.
Ok now go beat up a kid with a laptop and a sound card and a cheap mic and order your Sonoma system today!!!!!

Aaron Householter
studio1117

to me the same thing is achievable with a new studer right now with far less
cash..........sonoma will buy you 2 new studers
lots of tape and several assistants.......

or if you want lots of options, then the 32 track/sonoma meitner situation
with both studers.............

i wonder how many years it will be until someone trades 24 channels of
meitner conversion for a tape recorder ?...............

i'd love for sony give sacd to steve jobs to put in all of the apple stuff....perhaps
you could convince someone that having 1 high resolution copy of their favorite record
was worth 200 songs of space.......
they should be free for detroit to put in every car.....

i bought two cd's for $38.99
last night......crazy.....both have bad packaging.......
that's too much money.......

most of the time i feel comfortable with apple, but the institution
of the mp3 as a musical standard is a sad thing for all of us....

it would be great if their marketing moment could be shared
by some new audiophile delivery system..........


be well


- jack

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by Duardo

CD-quality

That's right up there with "jumbo shrimp."

[Duardo]

Or how about "farm-raised Atlantic salmon"? It's just on my mind because that's what I've pulled out of the freezer for lunch....and it's from Chile, which I believe is for the most part on the Pacific. I suppose if the salmon I'm about to eat was raised on a farm on the Strait of Magellan then it may be so far off...

-Duardo

[nobtwiddler]

After hearing a few session done in DSD I can't ignore the sound,
and even if SACD's don't thrive...I still believe in the DSD format!
So much so, that I'm waiting today for Fed Ex to drop my new Genex GX9800 recorder...

Paul
www.millbrooksoundstudios.com

[con_ritmo]

if/when blu-ray becomes mainstream i'm wondering what we'll see in terms of commercial audio standards. 25gb per disc single layer, 50gb dual layer.

then again there's also hd dvd...

[jomo1234]

We will most certainly see higher audio standards in digital audio delivery once high volume storage and transfer methods become common place. The MP3 format was developed when most people were dialing up at 56K, and Fraunhofer made a clear decision that balanced the need for 'acceptable' audio standards vs. acceptable transfer times. Digital audio standards will increase at similar rate at which the transfer time is decreased. The music industry definitely wants higher audio standards...if only so people will upgrade their MP3 files to a better format....it's the same concept as when CD's were developed and consumers rushed in to replace their "outdated" LPs...HAHAHAHA!!!

[seriousfun]

Originally Posted by con_ritmo

if/when blu-ray becomes mainstream i'm wondering what we'll see in terms of commercial audio standards. 25gb per disc single layer, 50gb dual layer.

then again there's also hd dvd...

Both BRD and HD-DVD can use both Dolby and DTS's "lossless" audio formats. Dolby Digital Lossless is MLP as found on current DVD-As, and will essentially be able to deliver eight channels of un-compressed 24/192 audio.

It's self-hating crap to say that the consumers have spoken, and all they want is bad sound on their iPods. What consumers have voted for is convenience - easy downloadability and portability. Higher quality sound has always won (45 v. Radio, FM v. AM, LP v. Cassette, etc.), and will again if the music industry properly presents a compelling format.

So far, no music-only format has been announced, but that shouldn't stop some enterprising music company from throwing one still picture on the disc and filling the rest with gorgeous hi-rez audio? Should it?

[cdog]

Originally Posted by studio1117

We can let -pro-tools go the way of the consumer and we can hold our heads up high again and say " I'm a man(or a woman) I no longer play with consumer toys with plug-ins(that really don't sound like the real things they imitate) I have a huge console, a big mic, huge racks full of gear with lights & and a big room" & " no. You can't make good records at home with that shit"
Aaron Householter
studio1117

You sir, are why I decided to learn engineering and open my own studio.

After many experiences as a paying client in commercial studios where the engineers imposed their ego on the recording process.

"You have to do it this way! It sounds the best!"

"You can't make a great album on THAT board!"

"If its not 16 track 2", its a waste of our time"

Arrogance. Elitism.

The is no place for it in art.

People listen to the albums we record because the music they want to hear is on them.

Not because we recorded it on 2", or DSD, or PCM, or with 16 u47s.

Once I realized that, I became a much better engineer.

Set up the mics, listen for noise, hit record, and get the fuk out of the way of the musicians.

[studio1117]

If you can't hear the difference between pro tools and a Sonoma system you should go back to being a client instead of being a studio owner/engineer.

That old argument about the quality of music etc....what's next "it's the ears man..not the gear" stop please with this argumant. We all know that gear has an effect. Listen I know Phil Ramone can probably win a grammy using a shure field mixer, 2 sm-57's and recording Paul Simon playing a Hondo II acoustic guitar. But you can't tell me it wouldn't sound better using a Neve 80 series board a pair of km-84's on a lovely 1950's Martin and a u-67 on Pauls voice (although I think he used to use a 414eb on Pauls voice). Really. The whole "it's the vibe" is soooooo overdone these days. How many of us can say we even get to work with a cool band or artist even 5% of the time? Even if we got to work with "great acts" all the time, the above statements would be true.

Now shut up before I call the imperial troops on you. :-)
Aaron Householter
studio1117

[SnakeCained]

Will SACD ever be popular? Two words Playstation3!

This will feature SACD playback and as it's in a games console it may end up connected to a home surround system

I am amazed at the classical take up for SACD great for another round of new format reissue for the audiophile types (reasonble market actually)

Dosen't matter how you recorded and mixed your album because the mastering stage is analog anyway (yes I'd love to try a DSD 24 track too)

Best I've heard?

Beck - Sea Change
Floyd- DSOTM
Super Furry Animals - Lovekraft

And more and more appear..........

[yvesklein]

Most of the folks who seem to look down on SACD are the same folks who haven't heard it, let alone on a good system. Most of the SACD players right now down-convert the DSD stream to PCM, and don't go direct to the D/A- so it gets even better w/ better players... once you hear some good DSD discs on a good system, you won't go back!

This brings up a whole nother topic, that being studio guys who have mid-fi stereo's. Whats up with this? How many of you have hi-end stereo's at home? You'll spend 3k for a Neve summing mixer, but listen to CD's on your college stereo setup.

Invest in some great speakers, amp and SACD player, and you will kick yourself for not having done it sooner.

yves

[Reptil]

a good friend of mine is a consumer and he just bought a reciever, surround decoder video thingy. I was happy to find 2 SACD inputs at the back. he is interested in getting the best quality available, but has no clue up to now how to reach it.
Playstation 3 has SACD? incredibly good news. I cannot imagine that friend of mine NOT buy the PS3.
I am really thinking about investing in SACD. beginning of next year, so my question is: what is your SACD recorder of choice? the tascam one? or the little sony? or..?

[Duardo]

I am really thinking about investing in SACD. beginning of next year, so my question is: what is your SACD recorder of choice? the tascam one? or the little sony? or..?

I have the Tascam one and it's not an SACD recorder. It can record DSD audio to DVD, but to make an SACD you'd have to have it authored (and it doesn't play back SACDs either). I don't believe Sony has an SACD recorder either.

-Duardo

[the1Hub]

Originally Posted by nobtwiddler

After hearing a few session done in DSD I can't ignore the sound,
and even if SACD's don't thrive...I still believe in the DSD format!
So much so, that I'm waiting today for Fed Ex to drop my new Genex GX9800 recorder...

Paul
www.millbrooksoundstudios.com

congrats on the new machine. these are fantastic units but like anything they have there quirks. my first peice of advice is it you have a model that has two remvable SCSI bays make sure you have a drive in each bay and locked in when going through the setup menus. for some reason the SCSI seems to lag if it dosnet see destention drives in every availble spot. if you need any other tips or you get stuck on something just ask.

aaron

[natpub]

If it comes at all, advances in audio quality will come from a different place than the music marketplace. One such place may be HD Audio. Another is gaming platforms, as mentioned above.

The same enthusiasts who are pushing HDTV, home surround, and high-end gaming will be the ones to slip in with quality audio advances. As a result, I am sure we will see great audio in the future, but it will likely be attached as a sidebenefit to a primarily visual medium.

[tedcrop]

Here is the deal...everybody is listening to MP3's on IPODS.