How far away is Dsd or sacd? - Page 2

**Reptil** · 17th November 2005

Right...
imagine you are a computer manufacturer.
you want to sell more music playing machines.
everybody got an ipod.
you want to persuade them to buy a bigger better newer thing..
how about making files bigger?
hmmm
how do we do that?
as big as possible?
and it has to be better?
hmmm
better converters?
another technical mumbojumbo incentive make people buy the thing..
hmmm
wav? nah that's associated with computers
we need something audiophiles listen too
hmmm
how about an sacd ipod?
that could do the trick! super audio ipod.
..
now if we only could get sony and apple and the other dimwits to start actually doing something sensible, instead of trying to make their own ship sink really fast (copy protection)..
I'm talking "mono to stereo change stuff" here: Nobody expected it to be done, until it was actually there. SACD or ... (hi quality surround is not useful, as people listen on headphones). a change is required. to keep the financial ball rolling. And don't give me "oh but people are not going to buy something new!" that is not true. they NEED something new to chew on. Being a consumer that keeps you in touch with changing reality. And the music industry should start acting like grownups. to survive. at all. otherwise yes we WILL all be listening to ipod mp3 for many many years..

I rest my case *exhale*

studio1117 · 18th November 2005

I totally agree. Ask around. Most people don't really know what SACD is, but if you asked them, hell don't ask them anything. On 2nd thought, Sony and Apple as "the music people" have an obligation to make the best sounding stuff they can. Come on...all they have to do is come out with the Sa-iPod and tell people, hey this is better, now you gotta re-buy all your music on SACD format they'ld do it. Don't agree with me? How many of you re-bought all your albums on CD thru the years?.......That's what I thought.

Aaron Householter
studio1117

jdunn · 18th November 2005

If you look at the big picture, from a scientific point of view, like a historian, here's the way it's gone down so far......

We had a few generations of people raised on vinyl and tape. Then we had a few generations raised on the CD.

Now we're seeing a generation raised on the mp3. (See a trend here?) I suppose it won't get any worse.

Wait! It just did! Now we have the 'Ring Tone Generation'!

They have never even heard a cassette or vinyl record, let alone studio quality 2" tape or 24bit PCM/DSD, etc... CD is going to sound very good to this generation. Just having 16bit/44.1 khz PCM on an I Pod would be a huge step up from mp3. So you're fighting an uphill battle at this point.

I know there are some players such as the Rio Karma that will play a FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) file, and I believe you can load Apple's lossless compressed files on an I Pod too. Or did that Apple lossless thing fizzle out?

What's surprising to me is that Apple has it's own lossless compression format, but does not offer I Tunes downloads in that format. You'd think someone with a high speed connection would pay $2.50 for a lossless file instead of $1 for an mp3. I would!

So if Apple can't even be bothered to put their own lossless format on f@cking I Tunes, the future of major labels doing online distribution in high resolution audio formats is spotty at best. However, some audiophile labels and bands themselves are offering FLAC downloads. That's been my plan for a while now. Launching online label soon!

And online is where it's at baby. I predict that the 'audio only' section of Best Buy starts shrinking. The CD section. One day it will certainly be gone. They'll have a bunch of computers you hook your I Pod up to instead. This model actually allows for quick downloads of high resolution audio, if they put in an OC3 fiber link. So maybe there's hope yet.

Hard to predict exactly what will happen. I say ask the Dust Brothers. Those guys are smart! It was back in the 90's when they said Ring Tones would be the next big thing.

I got way off topic, I guess. SACD is never going to big IMO.

Oh, and it's nice that you've done a few sessions on a Sonoma system. I think getting your ego all inflated about it is wrong though. I'm sure there are many engineers who are as great or greater than you seem to think you are. You are not somehow above them because they don't use DSD.

klaukholm · 19th November 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobtwiddler

So much so, that I'm waiting today for Fed Ex to drop my new Genex GX9800 recorder...

GX9800??

I think it comes down to the HI-Fi hardwaremanufacturers. I am seeing a lot more DVD players at a reasonable price point that have both DVD-a and SACD.
If it becomes common to have playback ability then the formats will have a chance.
In the classical business these formats make sense. They have even forced a certain discipline in its previous 8 channel restriction, moving us away from 24+ track orchestral recordings which in itself sounds better.

I can't wait to get the SACD version of Philadelphias new recordings myself.

kjetil

jdunn · 19th November 2005

I've owned a DVD player that plays both SACD and DVD-A for 3 years now. I haven't bought many SACD's or DVD-A's in that time. Maybe I should buy more of them.

I think these formats may survive among people who seek them out. There are some small labels out there. But as far as mass marketing, online distribution and download kiosks at the mall appear to be the future.

17th November 2005	#31
Reptil Moderator Joined: Dec 2004 Location: in a low orbit Posts: 19,390 1 Review written	Right... imagine you are a computer manufacturer. you want to sell more music playing machines. everybody got an ipod. you want to persuade them to buy a bigger better newer thing.. how about making files bigger? hmmm how do we do that? as big as possible? and it has to be better? hmmm better converters? another technical mumbojumbo incentive make people buy the thing.. hmmm wav? nah that's associated with computers we need something audiophiles listen too hmmm how about an sacd ipod? that could do the trick! super audio ipod. .. now if we only could get sony and apple and the other dimwits to start actually doing something sensible, instead of trying to make their own ship sink really fast (copy protection).. I'm talking "mono to stereo change stuff" here: Nobody expected it to be done, until it was actually there. SACD or ... (hi quality surround is not useful, as people listen on headphones). a change is required. to keep the financial ball rolling. And don't give me "oh but people are not going to buy something new!" that is not true. they NEED something new to chew on. Being a consumer that keeps you in touch with changing reality. And the music industry should start acting like grownups. to survive. at all. otherwise yes we WILL all be listening to ipod mp3 for many many years.. I rest my case exhale __________________ CONVERTERS FOR SALE HERE: link

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18th November 2005	#32
studio1117 Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2004 Location: Salina, Kansas Posts: 713	I totally agree. Ask around. Most people don't really know what SACD is, but if you asked them, hell don't ask them anything. On 2nd thought, Sony and Apple as "the music people" have an obligation to make the best sounding stuff they can. Come on...all they have to do is come out with the Sa-iPod and tell people, hey this is better, now you gotta re-buy all your music on SACD format they'ld do it. Don't agree with me? How many of you re-bought all your albums on CD thru the years?.......That's what I thought. Aaron Householter studio1117

18th November 2005	#33
jdunn Head of Bumping Security (B.S) Joined: Feb 2004 Location: in the hills of Southern California Posts: 2,944	If you look at the big picture, from a scientific point of view, like a historian, here's the way it's gone down so far...... We had a few generations of people raised on vinyl and tape. Then we had a few generations raised on the CD. Now we're seeing a generation raised on the mp3. (See a trend here?) I suppose it won't get any worse. Wait! It just did! Now we have the 'Ring Tone Generation'! They have never even heard a cassette or vinyl record, let alone studio quality 2" tape or 24bit PCM/DSD, etc... CD is going to sound very good to this generation. Just having 16bit/44.1 khz PCM on an I Pod would be a huge step up from mp3. So you're fighting an uphill battle at this point. I know there are some players such as the Rio Karma that will play a FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) file, and I believe you can load Apple's lossless compressed files on an I Pod too. Or did that Apple lossless thing fizzle out? What's surprising to me is that Apple has it's own lossless compression format, but does not offer I Tunes downloads in that format. You'd think someone with a high speed connection would pay $2.50 for a lossless file instead of $1 for an mp3. I would! So if Apple can't even be bothered to put their own lossless format on f@cking I Tunes, the future of major labels doing online distribution in high resolution audio formats is spotty at best. However, some audiophile labels and bands themselves are offering FLAC downloads. That's been my plan for a while now. Launching online label soon! And online is where it's at baby. I predict that the 'audio only' section of Best Buy starts shrinking. The CD section. One day it will certainly be gone. They'll have a bunch of computers you hook your I Pod up to instead. This model actually allows for quick downloads of high resolution audio, if they put in an OC3 fiber link. So maybe there's hope yet. Hard to predict exactly what will happen. I say ask the Dust Brothers. Those guys are smart! It was back in the 90's when they said Ring Tones would be the next big thing. I got way off topic, I guess. SACD is never going to big IMO. Oh, and it's nice that you've done a few sessions on a Sonoma system. I think getting your ego all inflated about it is wrong though. I'm sure there are many engineers who are as great or greater than you seem to think you are. You are not somehow above them because they don't use DSD.

19th November 2005	#35
jdunn Head of Bumping Security (B.S) Joined: Feb 2004 Location: in the hills of Southern California Posts: 2,944	I've owned a DVD player that plays both SACD and DVD-A for 3 years now. I haven't bought many SACD's or DVD-A's in that time. Maybe I should buy more of them. I think these formats may survive among people who seek them out. There are some small labels out there. But as far as mass marketing, online distribution and download kiosks at the mall appear to be the future.