Sanken COS 11 vs DPA 4060

[rmx16]

Any body compare the two? I'll be recording some string quartet stuff thru my MerticHalo box's. I know production mixers rave about them.They have to be low profile. And most of all the price is right.

Peace

[Petrus]

I have both, but have not done direct comparasons. Looking at the graphs DPA have only 3 dB lift at 14 kHz with standard grid (maybe no lift without the grid?), Sanken 8 dB at about 6 kHz. Too much, too low for music recording, but great for lavalier use. DPA 4060/4061 have been used by many with great results, by me also. They are sold as miniature microphones by DPA, also usable as a lavalier. Cos-11 is sold as a lavalier only, no suggestions for other uses by Sanken. That might tell also something.

(mics in the avatar: DPA 4060, in war...)

[dtf]

Originally Posted by Petrus

They are sold as miniature microphones by DPA, also usable as a lavalier. Cos-11 is sold as a lavalier only, no suggestions for other uses by Sanken. That might tell also something.

Just to clearify, DPA never intended to sell the 406x series as music microphones. It was by efforts from recording engineers that they found out that their mics could actually provide great results.

Best,
Dirk

[rmx16]

I found this video comparing the Sanken and a MK2. To my ears the Sanken sounds more open then the MK2.

Lavaliere Shootout: Sanken COS-11D Vs. Sennheiser ME-2 at DVinfo.net

Peace

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by dtf

Just to clearify, DPA never intended to sell the 406x series as music microphones. It was by efforts from recording engineers that they found out that their mics could actually provide great results.

Hi Dirk,

On what relies your statement ?
I've got the SMK 4060 stereo kit. On the accompanying notice, there are 5 pictures, one presenting the contents of the kit, one where the mic with its boundary layer mount is on a pylon in a church, one where two are hung above the tail end of a grand piano, one where two mics are put on the frame of a grand piano by means of their magnet mounts, one where the mic is on a drum. Also provided with this kit is the user's manual for the 4060/4061/4062/4063 miniature ominidirectional microphones. The cover picture shows a mic on the soundboard of a guitar. Inside there are two 4 other pictures where the mic is on a instrument (guitar, resonator guitar, piano, violin, saxophon) and only one picture where it used as a speaker microphone. On their web page presenting the 460, the sound examples are guitar samples.

So, it seems that DPA is presenting the 4060 mostly as a musical recording mic.

Didier

[dtf]

Hi Didier,

When I was writing in past tense, I meant before the mics came on the market and at the time that they were just available. As soon as a manufacturer finds out that a larger market is interested in his products, it is only logical they will advertise in that way.

DPA, like Neumann and Schoeps, always had a good relationship with larger classical recording studios, and it is from suggestions of engineers that sometimes product changes emerged (for example the gridless Schoeps mics).

It is especially Onno Scholtze, at the time Philips Classics in The Netherlands, who is responsible for the 4060 being used for music recording as well. You will find that another forum member, Gaston, can tell you the same.

Best,
Dirk

[mgoorevich]

I have both COS-11 and 4060 and 4061 (stereo pair).
Except a low profile of Cos-11, I really don't understand what engineers find in this mic. Ok it has low self noise too....but the sound?
It always sounded to me "buttered" or over colored. It has very specific mid range boost and it might sound often harsh at 10-13 KHz.
DPA 4060/61 are fantastic small microphones which sound "big".
Their only disadvantage may be a little higher than average self noise.

[Teddy Ray]

the 4060/4061 are way too noisy for any serious acoustic recording work.

Unacceptable, in my opinion./

[jnorman]

teddy - i ahve been using my 4061s as flanks with my km140 ORTF pair, and adding in just some of the omnis to the mix (maybe -20dB or so) can really add depth and width to the soundstage provided by the ortf pair. and at -20dB you really dont notice any noise from them. so i am finding them to be quite handy.

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by mgoorevich

I have both COS-11 and 4060 and 4061 (stereo pair).
Except a low profile of Cos-11, I really don't understand what engineers find in this mic. Ok it has low self noise too....but the sound?
It always sounded to me "buttered" or over colored. It has very specific mid range boost and it might sound often harsh at 10-13 KHz.

Typical of lavalier mics. This is what you'd dial in on your EQ when you'd use a linear mic taped to a person's chest. Mid range = speech intelligibility, 10k and upper range = compensation for chin.

[LX3]

I agree with most of the posters here.

I had occasion to directly compare the COS-11, a Tram TR40, and the DPA, in a voice pickup type application. The DPA was the most natural. The Tram was excellent as a lav for voice, though I don't know what it would sound like for instrument pickup (not designed for this). The Sanken was useable, but not nearly as nice as the DPA, or the Tram for that matter.

I've used the DPA 4061 quite a bit on acoustic instruments and it inherently sounds great. Although its an omni, so on a quiet instrument (e.g. strings) in a loud stage environment, it'll hear more spill than instrument. Spill is usually the limiting factor - not the sound of the mic itself, but what the spill does to the sound of everything else.

[amfortas2006]

I think that Sanken COS-11 is a good microphone (I have a couple of them). It is meant to be used as a lav, and was built to sound good for that purpose (speech and on-body-mounting)

If you compare it to a DPA4060 without the grid for recording music (more classical then other), you should use a bit of EQ and try to get the curve more straight, then you"ll be happy, because all together it is a low-noise, high-quality microphone.

thumbsup