Grand piano recording help

[kodaz]

Hey guys, I know this has been discussed a lot in the forums over the years, but I was wondering if I could get some suggestions for a particular scenario with respect to recording a piano with room, mics and mic placements in mind?

I'm going to be recording my friends Yamaha c6 (or c7, can't remember) grand piano for some pop/rock tunes. There is a mix of upfront rock songs and some more atmospheric, classical songs. This is by no means meant to be a professional job, but we want to get the best sound we can from what we have.

The room is about 50 square meters, fairly square with a medium to high ceiling and wooden floors/ceiling and mostly glass walls. The room can be closed off and there isn't much in it execpt for a couch and the piano; the preamps/recording equipment will be in the room away from the paino.

The mics we have to work with and choose from are fairly low end, but I've had pretty good results with them in various other applications, they are:

2x Studio projects C1
2x Avantone Cr-14 (figure 8 ribbon mics)
2x Avantone Ck-1 (cardoid, omni or hypercardioid)
1 SE electronics SE2200a

For preamps I was going to use my 2 golden age project Pre 73s for the main mics, as well as the preamps on my presonus firestuido for any extra mics needed.

Obviously I'm open to trying different placements etc, but one of you might have a good recommendation for starting based on the above information.

Thanks a lot guys for any suggestions

[John Brook]

Hi,

I cannot speak to your mics, but I can share with you some general recording philosophy picked up over the years. Pop and jazz recordists generally like to mic directly over the sound board, close to the strings. You're not really recording the vibrating strings as much as the sound board. The sound board is a transducer, coupling the strings' vibrations to the air. It's an impedance transformer, to put it in engineering terms.

Classical recordists prefer to record off the tail of the instrument, generally in the 2 o'clock position (in reference to the pianist), so that reflections off the lid are minimized. Some like to record at the 3 o'clock position, near the bend in the rim.

The piano is like a loud speaker with an open backed enclosure. The back wave can reflect and cause both constructive and destructive interference, and muck up your sound. Catching the direct wave is generally best.

Moving your mics around to find the best sound is certainly a great idea.

Good luck with your project.

[kodaz]

Hi John,
That certainly makes sense. I've noticed how much the sound can change as I walk around the instrument and have noticed there is a very bright sort of sweet spot in the 3 o'clock position facing the lid.

I'm probably more confused as to whether it's better to set up a number of mics and then blend them together at the end. For instance, If Iwas to set up say 5 mics, 2 on the sound board, 2 in an M/S position, and then one way back in the room, would this be overkill and would it potentially introduce phase problems? If I were to do this, then I could use more of the direct harp mics for the more upfront songs, and more of the M/S and room mics for the more atmospheric tunes (not really classical, just more spacious).

[John Brook]

I'm sort of surprised others haven't chimed in yet - perhaps later.

My recordings of pianos, in the field, are usually with an orchestra. I generally use only one mic, a cardioid, near the tail, and blend it with the overall stereo mix, so the piano stands out. Once I had an harpsichord with no lid, so I placed the mic on the back side, facing directly at the sound board. It worked great.

For solo piano recitals, I generally mic at about the 2 o'clock position, about 4 or 5 ft away from the tail of the instrument. I use omnis for really neutral sound and pickup of reflected sound from the hall and audience.

John

[doghouseNYC]

A couple articles on my site deal with this topic:
Recording the Grand Piano

Recording the Upright Piano

How you mic it really depends on a lot of things, not the least of which being how the piano part is going to sit in the mix (how it functions). Try a bunch of stuff. The instrument and the room are going to be as/more important than the mics, pre's and placement.