Gefell MK221 and MK202

Ulrich · 16th April 2010

Hi,

I own MK221 and am VERY impressed with them.

I wonder wether it's worth trying MK202, too.

Any experience here?

Thanks a lot,
Ulrich

MichaelPatrick · 16th April 2010

I have a pair of MK221s and, like you, I'm impressed every time I use them.

The MK202 is 7dB noisier and the polar response at 20kHz is significantly narrower. On axis, however, the MK202's response is flat up to 35kHz!

For recording audio I think the MK221 comes very close to ideal.

Ulrich · 21st April 2010

Thanks, Michael, however I understand from your posting you haven't had any personal experience with MK202 so far, am I right?

So there haven't been that much comments so far... maybe MK202 is a too exotic mic...

MichaelPatrick · 21st April 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulrich

Thanks, Michael, however I understand from your posting you haven't had any personal experience with MK202 so far, am I right?

So there haven't been that much comments so far... maybe MK202 is a too exotic mic...

Correct; I have no experience with the MK202. You may want to call Kelley at Josephson Engineering. They sell Gefell capsules and can probably describe how the MK202 works in recording applications.

didier.brest · 21st April 2010

Which mic bodies, other than Josephson C617, does MK221 fit ?

MichaelPatrick · 21st April 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by didier.brest

Which mic bodies, other than Josephson C617, does MK221 fit ?

The capsule is designed for acoustic measurements and Gefell makes bodies for those applications. Preamp bodies designed for audio applications are rare; Josephson may be the only company that converts 48v phantom power to 200v which the capsule requires.

Gefell bodies:
MICROTECH GEFELL GmbH Deutschland - english-

rumleymusic · 21st April 2010

Quote:

So there haven't been that much comments so far... maybe MK202 is a too exotic mic...

What bodies are you using? You mentioned you owned 221s. From what I have heard, these measurement capsules can be quite stale without a good amplifier. Josephson is the only one that I know of designed specifically for music recording.

Michael,

Do you have any links to your recordings using the C617's? I am interested in purchasing a pair.

Ulrich · 21st April 2010

I don't use Josephson but old Gefells MV102 modded by Andreas Grosser. For MK221 I use the MV102 together with an adapter (today nowhere available anymore...)

BTW, Gefell also offers an amplifier which converts P48 into 200V, the MV225. However, you can only find it in the pricelist, it's not on their website, but it does exist...

MichaelPatrick · 21st April 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

What bodies are you using? You mentioned you owned 221s. From what I have heard, these measurement capsules can be quite stale without a good amplifier. Josephson is the only one that I know of designed specifically for music recording.

Michael,

Do you have any links to your recordings using the C617's? I am interested in purchasing a pair.

Daniel, here's a link to clips featuring C617 mics that compare Forssell SMP-2 and Gordon Model 5 preamps. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4029153-post59.html

And here's a low-quality MP3. It's 5 voices with no instruments or post processing. Listen to the tail.

rumleymusic · 22nd April 2010

Thank you for that link. I look forward to the SD/Nagra results.

Marik · 23rd April 2010

I have both MK221 and MK202 sets, working with custom made bodies/electronics.
They are both nice, but I prefer MK202, for its more "relaxed" top. With quiet sources and distant miking it can be problematic because of the noise, so in this case MK221 will be a nice overall compromise.
I made lots of comparisons with B&K4133 and found the MK202 sonically superior.
I prefer to use them without resonator.

End of May I have a recording session of classical piano with those babies. Can post some clips.

Best, Mark Fouxman
Samar Audio & Microphone Design

Ulrich · 23rd April 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marik

I prefer to use them without resonator.

Thanks, Mark, for your comment. What does "resonator" mean? Never heard about it - or do you refer to the nose cone?

Ulrich

Marik · 23rd April 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulrich

Thanks, Mark, for your comment. What does "resonator" mean? Never heard about it - or do you refer to the nose cone?

Ulrich

Ah, the top cover works like a resonator. Warning: if you take it off you will expose the diaphragm. BE VERY CAREFUL not to touch it.

Best, M

Teddy Ray · 25th April 2010

the 202 is great, has a bit more of a bass extension than the 221(not that the 221 was light!!!)

but it requires a special adapter for the c617 bodies, I do believe?

at any rate, the Gefell/Josephson combo is , in my opinion, the alpha and omega of SD Omni microphones..

Ulrich · 25th April 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

but it requires a special adapter for the c617 bodies, I do believe?

Is it possible you are mixing up MK202 (1/2 inch) with MK102 (1 inch)? I also own MK102, and yes, because of the two different sizes an adapter is required.

Ulrich

Marik · 26th April 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulrich

Is it possible you are mixing up MK202 (1/2 inch) with MK102 (1 inch)? I also own MK102, and yes, because of the two different sizes an adapter is required.

Ulrich

Yep, it seems like a mix up. Both MK 221 and MK 202 are 1/2" capsules, so there is no adapter needed. The 1" measurement capsules are not suited for music recording because of restricted top end performance. The 1/4" could've been phenomenal, but unfortunately not suited either, because of their noise.

Best, Mark Fouxman
Samar Audio & Microphone Design

avebr · 26th April 2010

Hello!

I don't intend to kidnap this thread, but would like to take the oportunity that we are talking about the MK221/202 - 1/2" capsules and ask - are there 'acoustic equalizers' available for these capsules, like those for the DPAs?

I would like to experiment such adapters/cones on my C617/MK221 stereo set...

Thanks!

all the best,
ave.

Marik · 26th April 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by avebr

Hello!

I don't intend to kidnap this thread, but would like to take the oportunity that we are talking about the MK221/202 - 1/2" capsules and ask - are there 'acoustic equalizers' available for these capsules, like those for the DPAs?

I would like to experiment such adapters/cones on my C617/MK221 stereo set...

You mean cones, or balls?

avebr · 26th April 2010

Both!

Any type of 'acoustic equalizator' that could be attached to mic - in front (nose, cone?) or behind (ball) ?

Just like those for the DPAs. But I could not find any info for 1/2" capsules.

all the best,
ave.

Teddy Ray · 26th April 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by avebr

Both!

Any type of 'acoustic equalizator' that could be attached to mic - in front (nose, cone?) or behind (ball) ?

Just like those for the DPAs. But I could not find any info for 1/2" capsules.

all the best,
ave.

Peter Drefahl makes them.

info @ pdrefahl.de

info @ drefahlaudio.com

Doc Mixwell · 26th April 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

at any rate, the Gefell/Josephson combo is , in my opinion, the alpha and omega of SD Omni microphones..

Alpha and Omega plus Aunt Jemima and Bisquick.

Pancakes bring me back from the dead and so do C617/MK221's.

avebr · 28th April 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

Peter Drefahl makes them.

info @ pdrefahl.de

info @ drefahlaudio.com

Hi Ted,

Thanks for the info. I'll contact him!

all the best,
ave.

Marik · 28th April 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by avebr

Both!

Any type of 'acoustic equalizator' that could be attached to mic - in front (nose, cone?) or behind (ball) ?

Just like those for the DPAs. But I could not find any info for 1/2" capsules.

I prefer ball type. Different ball sizes will affect different frequencies, boost and different off axis response. From top of my head DPA has 30mm, 40mm, and 50mm. In my shop I can make custom balls of any size for any microphone.

Best, Mark Fouxman
Samar Audio & Microphone Design

Rumi · 10th May 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulrich

I don't use Josephson but old Gefells MV102 modded by Andreas Grosser. For MK221 I use the MV102 together with an adapter (today nowhere available anymore...)

BTW, Gefell also offers an amplifier which converts P48 into 200V, the MV225. However, you can only find it in the pricelist, it's not on their website, but it does exist...

What do you say in relation to MV 102 vs MV 201, sonically?

I didn't find any info on their MV225, even in the price list. Do you know the current price?

Thanks alot,
Rumi

Ulrich · 10th May 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumi

What do you say in relation to MV 102 vs MV 201, sonically?

I didn't find any info on their MV225, even in the price list. Do you know the current price?

You should check the MTG website, they just released a new mic M221 which is pretty much the same stuff, 221 capsule with 48V capable preamp, probably directly developped from the MV225.

Ulrich

Rumi · 11th May 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulrich

You should check the MTG website, they just released a new mic M221 which is pretty much the same stuff, 221 capsule with 48V capable preamp, probably directly developped from the MV225.

Ulrich

Thank you, that sounds interesting! But as I've got good offers for older mics, I am currently more interested in "vintage" mics like the MV201, MV102 etc. Do you know anything about the price for the MV225?

Thanks!

[edit: I just realized that I misread your post. My wishful thinking made the MV225 look like an adaptor for mic bodies, while you are obviously talking about a mic body itself. I had the hope that I could replace the PSU for the MV201 etc. with the MV225. Thanks anyway!

Now the question arises: Do you know of any good PSUs? I've only found those from Schaal on ebay so far, but maybe I should ask Andreas or Peter Drefahl?]

Rumi · 11th May 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulrich

You should check the MTG website, they just released a new mic M221 which is pretty much the same stuff, 221 capsule with 48V capable preamp, probably directly developped from the MV225.

Ulrich

I've read the MTG site - that sounds really promising!

Ulrich · 11th May 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumi

Do you know of any good PSUs? I've only found those from Schaal on ebay so far, but maybe I should ask Andreas or Peter Drefahl?]

I have got no other experience with PSUs than with Andreas Grosser's ones.

Dr Gris · 11th May 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marik

The 1" measurement capsules are not suited for music recording because of restricted top end performance.

I have a pair of MK102 with custom made tubeamplifiers that I think sound gorgeous on acoustic guitar and grand piano

Just saying...

Kind regards
Magnus

Rumi · 14th September 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by avebr

Both!

Any type of 'acoustic equalizator' that could be attached to mic - in front (nose, cone?) or behind (ball) ?

Just like those for the DPAs. But I could not find any info for 1/2" capsules.

all the best,
ave.

Gefell offers balls etc. for reasonable prices.

16th April 2010	#1
Ulrich Gear Head Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 30 Thread Starter	Gefell MK221 and MK202 Hi, I own MK221 and am VERY impressed with them. I wonder wether it's worth trying MK202, too. Any experience here? Thanks a lot, Ulrich

25th April 2010	#14
Teddy Ray Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2009 Location: Carolina is where they'll bury me. Posts: 7,096	the 202 is great, has a bit more of a bass extension than the 221(not that the 221 was light!!!) but it requires a special adapter for the c617 bodies, I do believe? at any rate, the Gefell/Josephson combo is , in my opinion, the alpha and omega of SD Omni microphones.. __________________ "I would shoot a man if he put me through autotune" - Charlie Louvin

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16th April 2010	#2
MichaelPatrick Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,254	I have a pair of MK221s and, like you, I'm impressed every time I use them. The MK202 is 7dB noisier and the polar response at 20kHz is significantly narrower. On axis, however, the MK202's response is flat up to 35kHz! For recording audio I think the MK221 comes very close to ideal.

21st April 2010	#3
Ulrich Gear Head Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 30 Thread Starter	Thanks, Michael, however I understand from your posting you haven't had any personal experience with MK202 so far, am I right? So there haven't been that much comments so far... maybe MK202 is a too exotic mic...

21st April 2010	#5
didier.brest Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,791	Which mic bodies, other than Josephson C617, does MK221 fit ?

22nd April 2010	#10
rumleymusic Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,554	Thank you for that link. I look forward to the SD/Nagra results.

23rd April 2010	#11
Marik Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2004 Location: SLC Posts: 506	I have both MK221 and MK202 sets, working with custom made bodies/electronics. They are both nice, but I prefer MK202, for its more "relaxed" top. With quiet sources and distant miking it can be problematic because of the noise, so in this case MK221 will be a nice overall compromise. I made lots of comparisons with B&K4133 and found the MK202 sonically superior. I prefer to use them without resonator. End of May I have a recording session of classical piano with those babies. Can post some clips. Best, Mark Fouxman Samar Audio & Microphone Design

26th April 2010	#17
avebr Gear maniac Joined: Jun 2008 Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil Posts: 182	Hello! I don't intend to kidnap this thread, but would like to take the oportunity that we are talking about the MK221/202 - 1/2" capsules and ask - are there 'acoustic equalizers' available for these capsules, like those for the DPAs? I would like to experiment such adapters/cones on my C617/MK221 stereo set... Thanks! all the best, ave.