FR2LE VS. Sound devices 722, sounds the same to me

[Dumb-Ask]

I heard a quiet bird recording of both FR2LE and Sound devices 722
both devices were using the same mic setup SASS-P MK II

I have to be honest that I could not tell the difference between the two. I probably need to have my ears checked

Apart from the price do you find a big difference between the preamps of these two devices?

[Petrus]

FR2LE:

Recording/Reproduction Frequency 20 Hz - 20 kHz ±2dB (FS 44.1/48kHz)
20 Hz - 40 kHz ±3dB (FS 88.2/96kHz)
S/N (ADC-DAC, 24bit, 48kHz)
Line (Input Gain: +4dBu) 95dB (typical)
Mic (Input Gain: -60dBu) 85dB (typical)
Dynamic Range 95dB (typical) (ADC-DAC, 24bit, 48kHz)

SD722:

A/D Dynamic Range:

• 114 dB, A-weighted bandwidth
• 110 dB, 20 Hz – 22 kHz bandwidth

D/A Dynamic Range:

• 112 dB, A-weighted bandwidth
• 108 dB, 20 Hz–22 kHz bandwidth

Frequency Res. Mic or Line:

• 10 Hz–40 kHz, +0.1, -0.5

(gain controls centered, Fs 96 kHz)

Equivalent Input Noise:

• Mic: -133 dBu max (-135 dBV), 50 ohm source,

A-weighted filter

• Mic: -131 dBu max (-133 dBV) max, 50 ohm source,

20 Hz–20 kHz BW flat filter, gain fully up

• Mic: -130 dBu max (-132 dBV), 150 ohm source,

A-weighted filter

• Mic: -128 dBu max (-130 dBV), 150 ohm source, 20

Hz–20 kHz BW flat filter, gain fully up

If you can not hear it, get the FR2LE by all means...

[tourtelot]

Gotta say, two fairly different machines.

D.

[Ozpeter]

Simply in terms of noise, the two measure very close, according to the well-respected site at Avisoft Bioacoustics - Microphone Input Noise Comparision

[Dumb-Ask]

Originally Posted by Ozpeter

Simply in terms of noise, the two measure very close, according to the well-respected site at Avisoft Bioacoustics - Microphone Input Noise Comparision

Wow, that is close, thank you for the link Ozpeter.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by Dumb-Ask

I heard a quiet bird recording of both FR2LE and Sound devices 722
both devices were using the same mic setup SASS-P MK II

I have to be honest that I could not tell the difference between the two. I probably need to have my ears checked

Apart from the price do you find a big difference between the preamps of these two devices?

Hi DA-
It's interesting that the of the comment space so far has been taken up by citing various specifications rather than sound.

They may indeed sound exactly alike in your recording. But if you record a much more complex and dense texture, then you might find that your two machines are quite different.

I recently came to the conclusion that the little Tascam DR-100 produced recordings every bit as good as the HD-P2. Even with quite complex sources, like an organ, for example. In fact, I could not in any way distinguish the two machines used for a specific organ recording.

But then I did a recording with the same to machines of organ, brass, percussion, and choir, with a much more complex room and much more complex organ. In short, the situation was infinitely more complex. Here, the difference was heard in seconds, and there was no doubt that the recording capabilities were not alike at all.

As always, get the product that suits your needs. If you are sure of your needs, then you know what to buy. However, if your needs may change over the near future, then you might want to do more testing at the outset.

BTW, if you are *really* interested in recording bird calls, the place to go (on the web) is the Cornell University site. They have been *serious* bird call recordists for many years, and their take on equipment, including microphones, has always been interesting and unique. They call them as they see them. It's been some time now since I last visited their site.

I'll bet Messiaen would have just loved modern portable flash recorders!

[Mikycoud]

Hi,
@Jegg: I'm very much intereted in the link you gave. Where exactly on the site can one find the equipment reviews, or fora? I couldn't find it...
Thanx

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by JEGG

BTW, if you are *really* interested in recording bird calls, the place to go (on the web) is the Cornell University site. They have been *serious* bird call recordists for many years, and their take on equipment, including microphones, has always been interesting and unique. They call them as they see them. It's been some time now since I last visited their site.

Actually, the place I normally recommend for this is the WSRS (Wildlife Sound Recording Society) - it's well worth becoming a member as well, it's only £26 a year in the UK and EU and £35 for the rest of the world.

[mosrite]

I can give you some info. With the more expensive machine you are not just paying for better sound quality. Professional kit lasts longer, is more dependable in the field, is better designed and, generally, has greater functionality. Oh, and keeps its value longer.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by mosrite

I can give you some info. With the more expensive machine you are not just paying for better sound quality. Professional kit lasts longer, is more dependable in the field, is better designed and, generally, has greater functionality. Oh, and keeps its value longer.

^^^^^^ What he said, and, if you think about it, if these two boxes were truly comparable, who would buy the more expensive one? A good way to see what really works is to check what the folks who use the machines to earn their living are using. When you have to have a machine to depend on, day in, day out, you get what will work every time you flip the on switch.

This has been said before, but in NASCAR they say, "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"

[Dumb-Ask]

Thanks for your answers. mosrite, I do not doubt that sound devices 722 is a better recorder and has better features such as MS encoding and decoding but I'm actually talking about the sound quality of these two devices.

I am not an expert and do not claim to be one, but from what I heard these two sounded pretty much identical to my untrained ears.

I also just found this intersting topic about the same thing we're talking about.

Re: Fostex FR-2LE vs SD 722 (was 722 vs MixPre)

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by boojum

^^^^^^ What he said, and, if you think about it, if these two boxes were truly comparable, who would buy the more expensive one? A good way to see what really works is to check what the folks who use the machines to earn their living are using. When you have to have a machine to depend on, day in, day out, you get what will work every time you flip the on switch.

I bought an FR2LE almost a year ago & its been great for me. Carry it almost everywhere too... Only complaint I have is that the headphone outputs STINK. Lots of hiss & they can't get very loud before it starts to clip so I usually carry a booster amp & take the line out. Not so bad, plus I can feed multiple pairs of cans that way which is great if other people want to listen.

Other then that, like I said... its been great. Totally reliable and sounds good to me. Though I'm recording rock bands, not bird calls.

Probably 90% of the time I'm also using an outboard preamp for the mics to the line in and/or feeding it a matrix out from whatever console I'm on. The on-board preamps are what I'd call 'serviceable' but not outstanding. Then again, I don't expect the on-board preamps on ANY recorder to sound outstanding. YMMV.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

I bought an FR2LE almost a year ago & its been great for me. Carry it almost everywhere too... Only complaint I have is that the headphone outputs STINK. Lots of hiss & they can't get very loud before it starts to clip so I usually carry a booster amp & take the line out. Not so bad, plus I can feed multiple pairs of cans that way which is great if other people want to listen.

The headphone amp is designed for low current draw to maximise battery life.

I found no problems using low impedance high efficiency headphones such as the Sennheiser HD 25-1. But I had the same problem as you with higher impedance and lower efficiency headphones (eg: HD 600).

[Jay Kahrs]

Hmmm... I've got a bunch of AT M40 & D40's which IIRC are like 60 or 75ohms. I've also tried Fostex T20 & various Sony, AKG & whatever else is banging around here. All of them clip at the pretty much the same point...

To be fair I'm asking A LOT from that headphone out. One of the first gigs I did with the FR2 had FOH at side-stage and a band hitting about 105dB without any help from the rig, which was massive... about 3,000 people outdoors. Not that I can tell much of anything with cans on (mix wise) but I at least want to be sure I'm getting a clean signal and the built-in amp just could NOT keep up.

[chris319]

But then I did a recording with the same to machines of organ, brass, percussion, and choir, with a much more complex room and much more complex organ. In short, the situation was infinitely more complex. Here, the difference was heard in seconds, and there was no doubt that the recording capabilities were not alike at all.

This might be measurable as intermodulation distortion.

[mathieujm]

I have a FR-2LE now and am really happy with the sound... but can't compare with a 722.

Here you will find a sample of classical violin + cello
MC930 ==> FR-2LE 24/44.1 ==> Samplitude mp3

Download Melodie_hongroise_Bartok.mp3

The noise is from the gas heating in this little montain church.
JMM

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

Hmmm... I've got a bunch of AT M40 & D40's which IIRC are like 60 or 75ohms.

You also need to take account of the efficiency - the HD 25-1 is 20dB more efficient than the M40 and a lot easier to drive.

The quoted figure is 120dB for the HD 25-1 and 100dB for the M40.

[Dumb-Ask]

Hi mathieujm very nice recording

How is the sound different between these two devices (722 vs. FR2LE)? Is it warmer, fuller, more defined?

I am only asking because, if you will blindfold me I would not be able to tell you which sounds better and why.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mathieujm

Here you will find a sample of classical violin + cello MC930 ==> FR-2LE 24/44.1 ==> Samplitude mp3

JMM

How nice! Thanks.