Which mics for a stereo recording?

[obviousb]

I am recording a choral group with minor instrumentation in a large
church. I am just doing a stereo recording to DAT.

I have recorded the same group many times in the same place,
but was thinking of trying some different mics. In the past, I have
always used a pair of Rode NT1-A's. I am not unhappy with the results,
I am just interested to see what kind of results I get with the other options.
I know that the best way is just to experiment, but the recording
is for a client, so I still want to deliver as good of a product as I can.
(I don't want to experiment too much on the client's dime)

The chain is:
Mic > Langevin Dual Vocal Combo > Otari DTR 8S Dat Machine

The pairs of mics I have are:
Rode NT1 A
Oktava MC 012-01
Sterling Audio ST55/Groove Tubes GT55
AKG C 451 B
Audio Technica AT4055
Sennheiser MD 421 II
Cascade Fat Heads

and of course the usual 57's 58's Beta 52's D112's
I also have other mics not in pairs, but thought that
since it is a stereo recording, I should stick with a pair of same mics.

[DanDan]

Take a look at mbho.com Combine the K200 capsule with either the transformer or transformerless preamp (603 and 604 I think)
You will have something between a Schoeps and a Neumann 84. Really.
DD

[John Brook]

You'll have good results using the AKG C 451 B you already have in an XY or ORTF pattern. I prefer the latter, but either is fine. Most of your other mics are not so really good for this job. The Oktava MC 012-01 would be okay, but is a bit noisier, and for choirs, you want to use quiet mics. The GT-55 would be good, too, if you can deal with the heavier mics on location. In fact, they might be equal to the AKGs.

Just personal opinion here.

[SoundWeavers]

the following pairs will give you really good results

Oktava MK012
AKG 451B
AT 4055

[boojum]

Why not the Fat Heads? They have picked up a good reputation for sound. I would think they would be lush on the chorale.

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by DanDan

Take a look at mbho.com Combine the K200 capsule with either the transformer or transformerless preamp (603 and 604 I think)
You will have something between a Schoeps and a Neumann 84. Really.
DD

You could have great results with these and I had some, but I now have better choral recordings, even with some instruments, with a pair of Beyer MC930.
Two important points with these in this situation :
- great off axis response
- high output

(I wouldn't compare the MBHO with schoeps or 84 !)

JMM

EDIT : obviousb, I didn't see you want to use your own mics

[hbphotoav]

The Fat Heads are indeed smooth and lush, but lack sibilants (at least mine do, which are equipped with the standard transformer... not the Lundahl version, which I've not yet heard) for choral work. I've heard the Royer SF-12 in similar situation, and it was noticeably better than what I heard through my Fat Heads... and the MKH8040s and DPA 4061s in my kit get the nod every time, depending on the room.

If you have the opportunity at a rehearsal, put up the 414s or the 4055s and the Fat Heads (I like the imaging of mine in Blumlein) and decide for yourself before the event. Otherwise, I'd go with either of the condensers... I have no experience with the Oktava.

[Audiop]

Harry,

how do MC930 compare to MKH8040?


/Peter

[Tommy-boy]

Originally Posted by boojum

Why not the Fat Heads? They have picked up a good reputation for sound. I would think they would be lush on the chorale.

I think the fat heads will be rich and smooth, but will be a bit too light in the highs - resulting in perhaps a dark sound.

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by John Brook

The Oktava MC 012-01 would be okay, but is a bit noisier, and for choirs, you want to use quiet mics.

No noise issue withe the MK-012 here. Certainly les than with a ribbon mic. I would try them, may be rather in AB spacing rather than XY or ORTF.

[obviousb]

Thanks for the responses.
I forgot to mention that this performance is live (obviously) and with the
audience present. A couple of other details I could add:

I have to use the mics in a wide stereo spread (each side of the room)
as there are pews with an aisle in the middle, so I cannot put up an x/y
or blumlein or any other stereo setup that requires the mics to be together.
Unless of course I put them to one side or the other of the room, thus eliminating the "stereo" aspect.

The pews begin about 15-20 feet back of the stage, so I set the mics up in that 15-20 ft space, out of the way (off to each side of the stage - out of audience line of site)


hbphotoav -
I assume you mean the 451's - I only have one 414, not a pair.
And unfortunately, I am not able to set up for a rehearsal with the group,
as they rehearse somewhere else (much smaller room), so it would
be a totally different ball game than the space I have to do the recording.
Also, all of the mics that I listed are condensers except the 421's and the fatheads. - My fatheads are also the stock transformer.

[John Brook]

Yikes! Any way to hang them?

Also you could commandeer part of a pew, either just left or right of center. Tape it off, and put your mics there.

If it's an issue, you need to explain to the music director/conductor that not being able to place your mics relatively center is akin to him having half his choir up front, the other half in back, and trying to blend them. Perhaps he'll get it.

Good luck.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by John Brook

Yikes! Any way to hang them?

Also you could commandeer part of a pew, either just left or right of center. Tape it off, and put your mics there.

Yes! If they care about the recording they can surely give up two butts worth of seating for a mic stand.

P.S. The Fatheads are good in many situations but the ribbon is 2.5 microns thick, like a Royer R-121. For better HF transients I'd recommend a 1.8 micron ribbon like the Royer SF series or AEA's R84 and R88.

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by Audiop

Harry,how do MC930 compare to MKH8040?
/Peter

No idea. My BeyerDynamics mics are M500s. From what I've read, they would be similar, though not as flat through the lower octave, and not quite as nice off-axis. But... I have not heard them, or used them.

Originally Posted by obviousb

Thanks for the responses.

...

The pews begin about 15-20 feet back of the stage, so I set the mics up in that 15-20 ft space, out of the way (off to each side of the stage - out of audience line of site)

hbphotoav -
I assume you mean the 451's - I only have one 414, not a pair.
And unfortunately, I am not able to set up for a rehearsal with the group,
as they rehearse somewhere else (much smaller room), so it would
be a totally different ball game than the space I have to do the recording.
Also, all of the mics that I listed are condensers except the 421's and the fatheads. - My fatheads are also the stock transformer.

Sorry... cranial flatulence. From my recollection of the 451s I've used in the past, the Oktava might be better on the choir... a little less bright. The 4055s might be just the ticket, though, in a ORTF or NOS arrangement.

I also agree about being very clear with the conductor/powers that be... if your near-coincident array of cardioids is not in the center (or just inside the first pew, on either side, aimed to the center) the results will likely be far from satisfactory (depending on the expectation). If you have the omni capsules for the Oktavas, you might try one each at the first pew, in a AB arrangement. 12-15' from the choir might end up with too much room (I seem to recall they don't have as much "reach" as, say, Gefell M296s might, from a gentle boost centered at 8K) but the symmetrical spacing might be better than an off-center pair of cardioids.

You might see if the powers-that-be would arrange a site visit where you could set up a pair in the position you'd prefer (use your prettiest mic stand... preferably black... and nice black cables) and see if you can persuade him/her/them to allow a decent setup. Fact is, most people "zone out" a mic stand after initially noticing it... it becomes "part of the furniture." Otherwise... tell him/her/them, "We can do it right, or we can do it wrong. I can't be responsible for the success of the recording if the mics are out of sight." It's all you can do, short of walking away from the gig.