live video of gig, need advice on recording the audio

[violindave]

I plan to record my next gig.
4 piece band all instrumental, electric violin, electric guitar, drums, 6 string fretless bass. eclectic world fusion

venue is just a small club with cool vibe, acoustics are decent.

the person I'm looking at hiring for the video has a decent sony video camera and has experience and seems to know what he is doing.

he recommends micing the cabinets and the drums into the venue board [an Allen and Heath mixwizard] and he'll take a feed off that and record it, synced to camera.

my drummer who has a decent amount of recording experience suggests just use a stereo distance micing of the band. there are two goosenecks set up hanging from ceiling in the club, forward from stage, which he says will work for this.

I tend to think he is right. The stage is small and last gig there was tightish, but enough room. To add a bunch of mics, drum mics etc would make it really tight and I do not want to impact the performance.

I have the following pairs of mics available for a stereo micing config:

2 x peluso cemc-6

2 x Joly modded Octava O12

I also have 57s, ATM-25s, ATM 450s,

I have some really nice large diaphragms [Bees Nees Phelicity, Dave Pearlman TMLE but not two of them]

I'm also thinking to take a good stereo preamp and use that rather than the board. My choices there are a Peavey VMP-2 with upgraded tubes, or a seventhcircle rig with 2 N72s, 2 J99s, 2 A-12s, which is actually lighter than the Peavey, but do I want to take that rig out to a club?
I also have an FMR RNP

Any and all feedback would be appreciated on my choices

I do not have a laptop, so not sure what will be recording the audio into right now. I use Samplitude 11 in my home studio. I think the video guy has a solution on that not sure what yet. I'm sure it will be better than what the camera can record

cheers
Dave

[M4-10]

Most cameras have two audio inputs you can use (find out what kind of connectors they require). Using aux sends and busses from the board can be a good way to go. Don't just use the main outs.

Without any more recording devices than the camera you are stuck with 2 inputs. Divide them the best you can.

A laptop and interface with 2 more inputs (total: 4) gives you decent flexibility. Now each instrument gets an input which will help a lot when you mix it later. Whatever drums mics (if any) are going to the mains, you can bus a kick and OH together for your drum input.

[AlexK]

I would be tempted to avoid running aux outputs into the camera, as you won't know what sort of mix/balance you're getting.

It might be worth renting a multitrack recorder (watch out for the Alesis HD24, I've had issues with them recording at the wrong speed which makes syncing video incredibly difficult), and a desk with DI outputs.

[Gerax]

I think it depends a lot on what is more important to you: the gig, the video or the sound quality, I mean: what's the purpose of a video if the audio isn't up to snuff? If you go the way your drummer suggests you'll end up with a wash of sound that you cannot control after, the balances will be those in the room, which you don't have control over...If you mic all the instruments and go straight into the the camera 2 inputs you'd be able to get a better quality (I'd also add the pair of ambient mics in to get more of the crowd noise and vibe of the place, belive me, that's a really important factor in a live recording feel), but you'll be tied to the mix decisions you'll make in that instance. The best solution (which I recognize isn't maybe your target) would be to multitrack the show, send a rough mix of the live audio to the camera and then mix the gig somewhere afterwards, synching back that mix to the rough audio in the video. In the end it's just a few pieces of gear added and a day more of work...no big deal if that gig is important to you...
If that's too much of an hassle then by any means go with the live recording form the room's board...not perfect but usable.

Hope this helps

[huub]

For quick and dirty recording, find a way to mix the output of the PA board with 2 crowd mics (either aimed at the crowd from stage, or from FOH so you also capture the sound of the mix in the room)

[hbphotoav]

Ditto what Gerax said. The problem with using the raw board mix (either the second tap for main out or an aux set up to pass post-fade from the channels... and that not in stereo) is that what the house hears will not be what you want in your record mix. Stage volume (unless everything is DI'd and you're using IEMs) will skew the house, especially when the bass profile of the room is taken into account. If you can split the inputs (rent a splitter... $50-$125 for a passive in Nashville depending on the number of channels) and track the gig, with the raw on-camera input giving you the reference to which you'll lay in the mixed audio, you'll definitely be a happier camper.

You might look at renting a Mackie 1640i or a Presonus StudioLive for tracking the split. With a careful setup (44.1, 24bit) before soundcheck, and a soundcheck at "show" levels and intensity, it can be "set and forget". You will need a laptop and a tracking program (I run Logic, but Mackie's Tracktion has worked well for me in the past, once I overcame the weird GUI, and others use Reaper, Cubase, whatever...) and a day to get familiar with the setup and use. The files (Logic and Tracktion, anyway) are .wav, and can be imported into most DAWs for mix.

If you truly don't want to add drum mics, you'll need to position a pair where they will get a blend of the acoustic elements (drums, perc, bass, electric guitar) and the elements running DI through the house (electric fiddle, vocals for announcements, intros, etc)... usually an impossible "spot" when any stage wedges are in use... they become sources as well... and I'd guarantee the goosenecks in place are there for convenience, and not because someone found "the" sweet spot in the space. A kick mic and a well-placed overhead (stereo or mono) can much better transcribe the kit to the recording than a pair in the house... no question.

Also consider adding at least a second camera, preferably identical to the principal cam. If you don't have a second operator, just lock it down on a wide shot of the stage, use the on-cam mics on "auto" for reference, and let it run. Then the guy on the principal is free to crash-zoom to a soloist, pan, change position, etc., while giving you a safe shot to cut to while he moves, jiggles, whatever.

My $0.02US. YMMV.

HB

[Gerax]

I agree, also, I recentely did some picture editing for a client of mine who had a pair of friends shot a video of his concert: he's a professional world class double bassist, and he played with piano accompainig him at the Genève's Conservatory's auditorium while I recorded the performance (BTW, the Conservatory had a permanently installed set of Schoeps CMC5/MK4 in ORTF pattern...which I just have to tap into and wire to my rig...). He only had 2 cameras going (and not of the same kind) so the final cut is a bit static; I found that 3 is really the minimum number to give the video some dynamic and movement...the large master shot, a right closer angle and a reverse left angle making some closer shots and being able to focus on select framings; an alternative could be the large one, a static closer angle and a handheld moving.
This was for a web cut on his homepage, so no big shots.

In the end, it yours looks like a fun project, I hope you get it right.

[Storyville]

I think the advice 'round the board is solid. I'd run your stage setup from the direct outs into a multi-track recorder. This way you can worry about the live mix at the live show, and the recording mix afterward. I think you're drummer has a posed a good suggestion as well - a room capture off stage if you can get the mic(s) somewhere where the audience won't bump it. This will let you control how "live" you want the sound, and automate in crowd noise when appropriate.

[violindave]

Thanks guys for the input!

[violindave]

OK, well time flies and I don't have the ideal setup but here's what it looks like I'm going to do.

close mic each amp cab and close mic in mono the drum set [one LDC about eye level in front of the entire kit]

take these 4 mics into a small 4 track mixer and mtach levels down to stereo into a Tascam HD-P2 which I will have at my disposal. I do not have a quality 4 track portable recorder available for this gig.

additionally I'll do a stereo ambient mics through the house board [A&H mixwizard] into the video camera. this gives me a reference for syncing as well as captures my talking to the audience and the audience itself as they clap and go wild!

So the next question is which mics? I'd appreciate input.
For the ambient mics I will use a pair of Peluso CEMC-6 or modded Octava MC-012s

My choices for the cabs are 57s, ATM-25s [for the bass?], I also have a Soundelux U195 [for the drum kit?]

Will these mics do the job for me for this purpose?

cheers
Dave