JoeCo BlackBox - What about those meters?

[MKing]

Please note:
MKing did not start this thread or creat its title.
The first six posts were copied from another thread.
I thought this was an important discussion that should be continued in its own thread.

Here is a pict of my first try using a JoeCo Blackbox. Just a shakedown cruise, but all went well. Next time Ill use it with the full rig. I am really interested in the lightpipe version, but im very impressed with the initial results from this insert version.

[bishopthomas]

Interesting seeing the BlackBox in use. I was worried about the limited metering and I see that my fears may be justified. It looks like almost everything is clipping, which may or may not be true - but how do you know for sure with only three LED's? Would you mind starting a new thread and giving us some opinions on the BlackBox?

[MKing]

Haha, gotta get the RED IS BAD mantra out of your system before using the Joeco. Big difference between light red and bright red. but yes, 4 would be better, or 14, but just red or light red is perfect, bright red is not...Its kinda like the iPhone, spend a few hours with it and you "just understand it" That orange "blow out" above tracks 9 and 10 is a reflection from one of the stage lights.
I posted some initial opinions In the "New Gear" area

[Corran]

Originally Posted by MKing

Haha, gotta get the RED IS BAD mantra out of your system before using the Joeco. Big difference between light red and bright red. but yes, 4 would be better, or 14, but just red or light red is perfect, bright red is not...Its kinda like the iPhone, spend a few hours with it and you "just understand it" That orange "blow out" above tracks 9 and 10 is a reflection from one of the stage lights.
I posted some initial opinions In the "New Gear" area

Huh, thanks for the opinions. I was also wondering about the metering.

It would be really cool if you could "solo" a track, at which point all the top lights became a sideways, 24-segment meter for precise level checking. Also, one thing I like about the HD24 is that you can set it to have the highest peak stay lit indefinitely, which greatly helps me when I am playing and recording something so I can check the peaks later. Can the Blackbox do this??

[bishopthomas]

That's a great idea, Corran! I complain about the metering so was trying to think of a way that it could be improved, without giving up the 1U space, but I've been stumped. That seems like the perfect solution, and could maybe even be taken care of in the software. I wouldn't mind having different colored LED's. Since the solo function now works in pairs, maybe the red would be left and the green would be right. JOE BULL, ARE YOU OUT THERE!?

I know I've said it before, but I really think they're going after the wrong market with this (almost) awesome recorder. Every video I've seen (including the one with Joe Bull himself) they mention a band plugging into the inserts of a console. They're obviously going after the "bands doing their own sound" market, but in my opinion it's at the wrong price point for that.

Shortcomings aside, having a headphone out and a solo button is all that is required to be miles better than the HD24. Oh, yeah, and if it can record in high SPL's without dropping out that would also put it above the competition...

[Corran]

Personally, an even better solution for me would be an optional 1RU unit that has detailed metering and monitoring. Then they could have the "base" machine for bands/whoever and an "expanded" version for those that need it. I'm sure we are a niche market and all so this is wishful thinking, but surely an "HD24 killer" would be a godsend for many of us and would sell well in the community.

[bishopthomas]

Surely there's a rack mountable meter bridge out there, right? I wouldn't necessarily ask JoeCo to create a new piece of hardware just for metering, but your "sideways meter" should be an easy solution to fix the only real problem I have with the BlackBox. That would also keep it a single space recorder, which I think is EXCELLENT!

I agree that we are a niche market, but I think we're the ones willing to pay $2500 for a 24 track recorder, not bands tapping the insert points of their consoles. Computers are cheaper...

[Remoteness]

The full metering when in solo sounds like an awesome idea.
Perhaps it can be obtained via a software revision.

Providing an optional hardware meter package for the serious recording folks is also a great idea.

[boojum]

Works out to ~$100 per recordable track. That's a good deal. Has anybody heard how this recorder sounds? If it does well it is a killer. The price is unbeatable. When it can run from a battery pack, Shazam!

[toolstudio]

The idea with the switchable VUs is great...

btw. I'm looking for a rackmountable 24ch meterbridge, probably 2U, with ADAT INS
since years, why does nobody built those...


wolfgang

[boojum]

One question: where is it built?

[WVUtubadude]

I am very excited about this product. I was planning on purchasing an HD24, but then I learned of this. Currently, I am holding out on the BBR1-A, which is the ADAT version. An enhanced metering section would just be a cherry on top.

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Surely there's a rack mountable meter bridge out there, right? I wouldn't necessarily ask JoeCo to create a new piece of hardware just for metering, but your "sideways meter" should be an easy solution to fix the only real problem I have with the BlackBox. That would also keep it a single space recorder, which I think is EXCELLENT!

Here's an idea: DJ 19" VU Type LED db Meter Display. something like this could be patched across the headphone out and let you see big bright meters on two channels at a time. This one has outlets in the back too. I didn't know DAK was stil in business - they used to sell utter crap to the unwise.

There are other versions that I have seen like this one
American Audio AA-DB1 Low Cost 2 Channel Audio LED dB VU Meter Audio Level Meters at Markertek.com

and it would be extremely easy to set up and calibrate.

[Mats H]

Originally Posted by toolstudio

The idea with the switchable VUs is great...

btw. I'm looking for a rackmountable 24ch meterbridge, probably 2U, with ADAT INS
since years, why does nobody built those...


wolfgang

Why not a laptop with an RME Digiface and Digicheck? Or a rack mount computer and screen. You'll get incredibly accurate metering. And a backup recorder

[bishopthomas]

Originally Posted by loujudson

Here's an idea: DJ 19" VU Type LED db Meter Display. something like this could be patched across the headphone out and let you see big bright meters on two channels at a time. This one has outlets in the back too. I didn't know DAK was stil in business - they used to sell utter crap to the unwise.

There are other versions that I have seen like this one
American Audio AA-DB1 Low Cost 2 Channel Audio LED dB VU Meter Audio Level Meters at Markertek.com

and it would be extremely easy to set up and calibrate.

Thanks for the links. The first one would be pretty cool, just because it can also take the place of a rack mount power strip (free meters).

[bishopthomas]

Originally Posted by Mats H

Why not a laptop ...

Not a big fan of computers for recording. Why wouldn't a recorder have usable meters?

[AlexK]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Not a big fan of computers for recording. Why wouldn't a recorder have usable meters?

You don't have to use it for recording. The recording thing can be a bonus.

I use RME TotalMix as my VU, and it's incredibly informative about every channel at the same time. This week I've been recording an album for a Christian Rock group at a local church and I wouldn't have been able to do it without the features of my Fireface, but that's for another thread. thumbsup

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Not a big fan of computers for recording. Why wouldn't a recorder have usable meters?

For recording, ie straight data acquisition to disk, why do you need anything more than simple peak meters and/or overload indication?

[bishopthomas]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

For recording, ie straight data acquisition to disk, why do you need anything more than simple peak meters and/or overload indication?

Are you serious? You really ONLY want to see what level you're recording IF you are overloading? By the time you clip it's too late. It doesn't make sense (to me) to have a clip indicator but no way to see how far away from it you are.

[Plush]

Oh snore. . .

Real meters are an essential tool.

The real reason that this box doesn't have them is that it is made to record off a console where you are using the console's meters to set levels. It is also geared towards low dynamic range material such as dynamic range controlled live sound reinforcement.

I don't like to guess.

I'll stick with the old reliable.

[WVUtubadude]

Does anyone foresee a Firewire version?

[MKing]

I too am waiting for the lightpipe version. The idea for the insert version is more as a virtual soundchecking recorder for FOH use. I was actually thinking about the one rack unit VU meters as well. Also, The unit can be set to hold red on a clipped signal for various periods of time. These units have an Ethernet port that could be used for a yet to be created 1 or 2 ru meter... but as of now there is not set plan for its use. email joe and suggest the meter thing and I bet it will happen.