My trip to Africa - best way to record children singing??

[ocianic]

Hello -

I'm traveling to Uganda/Sudan on April 19th to record a large group of children
from an orphanage sing choruses in a song written for movie project. Size of choir group will be from 50 to 270 children. I have a studio in LA with great gear (Neve 8068 etc) and vintage mics but I need to figure out the right minimal amount of gear to get a great stereo recording.

The choir will be overdubbed to an existing track. For recording my options are a Roland VSR880 (24 bit) or directly into a Panasonic XH-G1s HD camera. I also could rent a potable DAT machine or similar if that's wiser. I have 2 1073's for pre's. Options for mics are U87's, KM84's or AKG's414's..

Any advise of tips to help get this right and help me avoid mistakes would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[bishopthomas]

It sounds like you're doing a stereo pair setup, rather than multi-mics for sections, etc. In this case it will all come down to mic placement and the sound of the room (and of course the performance).

Also, do you have the monitoring situation figured out? You say they're singing to a track; headphones or monitors?

[Petrus]

The camera is maybe Canon XH-G1s. I have been able to get over 90 dB dynamic range feeding similar XH-A1 with Sound Devices 302 field mixer.

I would try to make things as simple as possible: minimum amount of gear, but doubled.

Either compact field mixer straight to camera, and/or a field recorder like SD722, both with couple of ORTF cardioids. Camera HDV audio is mpeg compressed, but fairly high quality. With a good field recorder you can use 24 bit PCM. With video always 48 kHz.

By the way: SD302 to XH-G1 works best by turning the camera potentiometers all the way open and feeding standard level line signal from SD302.

Lugging rack gear to a place like that is asking for trouble. Even the quality of electricity is dubious. DAT is dead.

I would take: SD302 for camera feed as backup and sync track, SD722 for master recording, one very good pair of cardioids, one good pair of cardioids (Oktavas?), one pair of hypers just in case, wind protection for all (recording is likely to take place outdoors...), iPod for reference track feed to choir leader.

I did a similar gig once: only the choir leader was fed the track to headphones, no bleed. Exact sync was done in edit. Also possible to have a PA system playing the track at low level behind the cardioid deaf spot.

[ocianic]

Thanks for the info. Petrus, I think you're right about rack gear... I'm going to rent an SD722.

Regarding monitoring, I was planning to lead the choir myself to prevent bleed (listening to track via headphones).... and also get lots of alternate takes with my drummer setting the time with metronome etc.

Just one last question - mics?? Which would be the safest bet and still give broad response?

Thanks again

[Petrus]

For field conditions (which you are likely to encounter) a MS combination of Sennheiser MKH40 + MKH30 is hard ,or impossible, to beat.

It is possible to fit this on one Rycote Zeppelin. SD722 has built in MS decoder, or you can record tracks separatelly and adjust the stereo width in post.

Another MS solution is a stereo mic, of which I have Pearl MSH 10 and used to have Shure VP88. Shure is a bit noisy, but otherwise a great field microphone, not all that expensive either.

For ORTF cardioids Senn MKH40 or MKH8040 would be ideal, but there are many comparable cards out there. Sennheisers take humid conditions better than others, though.

I think there is no need to loose too much sleep over the choice of mics (which vintage ribbons you prefer for african orphan choirs outdoors?), as long as they are good enough.

[bishopthomas]

Ocianic: Are we going by your mic options in your original post, or is anything fair game?

[ocianic]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Ocianic: Are we going by your mic options in your original post, or is anything fair game?

I can pretty much get my hands on anything..... what would you suggest?

[ocianic]

Originally Posted by Petrus

For field conditions (which you are likely to encounter)I think there is no need to loose too much sleep over the choice of mics (which vintage ribbons you prefer for african orphan choirs outdoors?), as long as they are good enough.

Good point... thanks for your help

[ocianic]

Originally Posted by Petrus

For field conditions (which you are likely to encounter) a MS combination of Sennheiser MKH40 + MKH30 is hard ,or impossible, to beat.

Petrus - Can an SD722 record MS or do I need the 4 channel version? I haven't recorded using MS before.

[Matti]

Ms is a 2 track recording, mid and side. Mics you already have I would concider taking the Neumann km84 pair and the akg 414 pair as an alternative
both with good windshields and with good and light statives, suggestion would be something from the Manfrotto or Lowell or similiar range, compact and light for not so heavy mics http://www.manfrotto.com/webdav/site...LOGUE_2009.pdf

Matti

[Baithak]

Hey Ocianic : I would second the recommendation for a single stereo mic - Schoeps/Sanken/Pearl if you want to go higher end or AT/Rode/Shure if you want to keep things under budgetary control. But since you are not sure of the conditions there, I would suggest carrying a pair of EV 635A the dynamic omnis as insurance. They can be used pretty close to source and have a surprisingly good sound. They have saved my sessions many times in remote places. I personally would carry a four track recorder as well - SD 744 won't do unless you carry an additional stereo mic pre.

Regarding this wonderful machine DAT you allude to below, Highly recommended!! especially if it can also make water :-))

Originally Posted by ocianic

I also could rent a potable DAT machine or similar if that's wiser.
Cheers

Good luck and I hope you have lots of fun in Uganda.
Baithak

[Petrus]

SD722 can matrix MS straight to the two tracks, with one gain knob you adjust the general level, the stereo width with the other. Better practise at home with the unit, there are over 80 items in the setup menu...

After setting up the SD7xx units are easy to use. Take enough batteries and do not forget the charger.

[NoVi]

In the past I have recorded groups of singing children and what I found more important than all technical issues is that the group really needs to be coherent in their singing, otherwise their words will become unintelligible, leading to unsatisfied recording results. Especially when you are dealing with large groups this risk is at stake.

Therefor they need a good teacher/conductor that practices a lot with them and strategically placing the best singers throughout the group so that the lesser singers in the group can use them as a guide is also a good idea.

Nevertheless working with children on these projects is very worthwile.

[ocianic]

Originally Posted by Baithak

Regarding this wonderful machine DAT you allude to below, Highly recommended!! especially if it can also make water :-))

[ocianic]

Originally Posted by Petrus

SD722 can matrix MS straight to the two tracks, with one gain knob you adjust the general level, the stereo width with the other. Better practise at home with the unit, there are over 80 items in the setup menu...

After setting up the SD7xx units are easy to use. Take enough batteries and do not forget the charger.

I'm going to use the SD722 - what is the battery life like on those?

Thanks again for the info!

[ghellquist]

Originally Posted by ocianic

I'm going to use the SD722 - what is the battery life like on those?

It depends on the battery size. I get more than 6 hours from the larger F-970 battery and phantom power while recording to internal hard disc. Not sure how much more as that has never been a restriction.

At home, get a battery charger that can run from a car cigarette ligther output. And while you are at it, get a cable for the 7xx as well so you can charge it in a car. Those outputs are generally easy to find even in the bush.

// Gunnar

[ocianic]

Originally Posted by ghellquist

It depends on the battery size. I get more than 6 hours from the larger F-970 battery and phantom power while recording to internal hard disc. Not sure how much more as that has never been a restriction.

At home, get a battery charger that can run from a car cigarette ligther output. And while you are at it, get a cable for the 7xx as well so you can charge it in a car. Those outputs are generally easy to find even in the bush.

// Gunnar

cheers!