Stereo tracking straight to Masterlink

[mrcomet]

Hi everybody,

This is my first post in this part of the forum.


I am hoping to track piano recitals straight to a Masterlink then burning the customer a copy. I know the unit OK and recorded live on it once some time ago. I have access to a Langevin for pre's and would pic up some mic's and be done with it ( open to many suggestions on mic choices).

I'm thinking of an ORTF setup so others could track without a lot of fuss regarding mic placement.

I know I'm losing some mix down stuff and cant go MS but it seems like it would work well if I get some room in the mics.

Can I keep it this simple an still put out a good product?

thanks

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mrcomet

Can I keep it this simple an still put out a good product?

Yes, absolutely. Mastering one technique is a great way to get results and build skills. At the same time you're learning what the technique does well you'll also learn its limitations, which prepares you to learn other techniques. Direct to stereo is great. You can be proud of your work when it turns out well, and I'm sure you'll do great with some practice.

BTW, welcome aboard!

[mrcomet]

Thanks for the encouragment,

So you think this chain will yield results? All I need are two mics. Earthworks maybe.

[hughesmr]

What Michael said. Direct to stereo is how you should cut your teeth in location recording.

As Plush once said (paraphrasing): "The mark of how good a recordist you are is how good a recording you can make using only two microphones."

Mics to consider depend on budget, use, etc. Is this a fixed installation for piano recitals only?

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mrcomet

So you think this chain will yield results? All I need are two mics. Earthworks maybe.

Yes, you can make music with that chain. There are many options, but focusing on one set of tools for awhile can be a lasting investment in learning because it'll give you a baseline for future comparisons.

Shure KSM-141 mics are great because they sound good, don't cost a fortune, and because they can switch between omni and cardiod patterns they adapt to any situation.

[BTR Audio]

I've recorded direct to Masterlink for years. It's great piece of gear for this purpose. The converters are OK but one day you might want to upgrade. I second the KSM 141 props from MichaelPatrick - good multi-pattern sdc's for not a lot of $. Direct to stereo is loads of fun. Good Luck.

[John Brook]

It's a great way to start. Use omni's if you can. The piano won't be so boomy. Like the others said, the A/D converters aren't the greatest on the Masterlink. If you can pop for an outboard unit, you'll notice the difference!

Good luck.

[rumleymusic]

Use omni's if you can. The piano won't be so boomy.

+1 on that. More multiple reasons.

I personally think the best piano mics are clean mics with good high frequency detail and low sensitivity to distortion ( thank you daniel for stating the obvious). Earthworks, DPA 406x, Avenson STO-2 all fit the profile. I havent heard many 141 recordings I like. But that is probably what, where, and who details of the recording rather than the mics themselves.

[hbphotoav]

For about half the money of new 141s, you might see if you can scare up a pair of clean Shure SM-81s. For years you've only seen them hanging over hi-hat... but they're dang decent cardioids. Wee bit of drop at 100 Hz, and a bit of sheen up top, but reasonably flat. SM-80s are omni in the same form factor. Not terribly sexy... but nothing to sneeze at, either.

[mrcomet]

Funny SM81 was the first mic that came to mind when starting this. I just like the way look pointed at stuff.

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by mrcomet

Funny SM81 was the first mic that came to mind when starting this. I just like the way look pointed at stuff.

Geez... good thing they sound pretty all right as well...

[mrcomet]

They're good mics also yes. That is another issue at hand, large or small diaphram. How much mic-tree do I want in fromt of the piano. The sm81s are a little long in the body if I recall(havent been in astudio for 8 years).

Should I just get a Yamaha AW something and some beta 58's and call it a day.

[MichaelPatrick]

several troll threads in GS lately w similar pattern
someone needs to get a life?

[sonare]

Originally Posted by mrcomet

That is another issue at hand, large or small diaphram. How much mic-tree do I want in front of the piano.

There is no good reason to consider LDC in your price range for the stated purpose. SDC offers smoothness, wide freq response and low noise. Do remember that the smaller the capsule the higher the self-noise, but a 7 or 9 foot piano at full throttle at the hands of a competent musician is LOUD. I would estimate that at least 90% of piano recordings involve omnis for smoothness, LF extension, and sense of space.

Considering that you shouldn't put you single pair any closer than 6 ft visuals should not matter much. The Decca piano technique was a spaced pair of omnis (maybe 8 inches apart) about 5.5 ft high and 6ft from the "bass leg" and 11 ft from front leg-- sort of a wierd square when seen from above. No action noise and no overly-bright sound (far too prevalent with many pianos today). An Atlas stereo bar works well for this setup and is cheap (<$20 from Vintage King).

Should I just get a Yamaha AW something and some beta 58's and call it a day.

NOOOO! But I am sure this was meant as a joke--

Rich

[mrcomet]

No guys I'm not a troll. The AW comment was more looking for boundries than anything. My apologies.

I have a month or so to decide what to do. The only gear in so far is access to a Langevin and a voxbox. Seems silly not using the Langevin.

I'm thinking about the masterlink because that's what I used to mixdown to. It's stable and I can make a CD the next day. I also have zero audio experience on computers. None.

As for mics the KSM 141 does look like the ticket without breaking the bank. I'm also wishy washy on how to mic it now. The room is pretty neutral as far as large spaces go. Eh... I'll figure ti out.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mrcomet

No guys I'm not a troll. The AW comment was more looking for boundries than anything. My apologies.

I have a month or so to decide what to do. The only gear in so far is access to a Langevin and a voxbox. Seems silly not using the Langevin.

I'm thinking about the masterlink because that's what I used to mixdown to. It's stable and I can make a CD the next day. I also have zero audio experience on computers. None.

As for mics the KSM 141 does look like the ticket without breaking the bank. I'm also wishy washy on how to mic it now. The room is pretty neutral as far as large spaces go. Eh... I'll figure ti out.

"I'm thinking of an ORTF setup"

Sounds like you know something about acoustic recording. At least you're familiar with a popular stereo technique.

"Can I keep it this simple an still put out a good product?"

Sounds like you want to narrow the options down to a method that'll work well for piano. Good.

"cant go MS but it seems like it would work well if I get some room in the mics"

Sounds like you also know about MS.

"All I need are two mics. Earthworks maybe."

Omnis or cardioids? Without even knowing what kind of pickup you want, why start talking about brand? Now I'm thinking you're a novice, which is fine. But be honest. Novices ask naive questions because they're clueless.

"SM81...I just like they way look pointed at stuff."

Now that really sounds naive. Cute, but definitely irrelevant and novice.

"another issue at hand, large or small diaphram."

What? I thought you wanted to keep it simple. Why raise a whole new set of questions?

"How much mic-tree do I want in fromt of the piano."

A Decca tree, or do you mean mic stand height? What about distance? You haven't even chosen a mic pattern! How can you talk about placement? I'm now thinking you're a troll or you're in way over your head.

"sm81s are a little long in the body."

What? Is this a joke about their legendary status, i.e., 32 years making records? Now I think you're a troll.

"Should I just get a Yamaha AW something and some beta 58's"

A handheld dynamic for piano? I thought you knew a little about microphones. I'm convinced you're a troll or a novice with insufficient writing or social skill.

Assuming you're a novice who really wants to learn how to record a piano simply with a Masterlink, find someone you can assist and ask them teach you the fundamentals. After some time you'll hopefully be able to converse on these subjects productively.

If you're a troll GS is not a welcoming place for your kind.

[JonesH]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

If you're a troll GS is not a welcoming place for your kind.

The OP didn't strike me as a troll. Just a little disjointed questions.
Without ever having heard the 141s, they would seem to be a good alternative since the OP can try out both AB, coincident and near-coincident methods.
It is ceratinly possible to do great recordings with just two mics. Just get out there and do them

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by JonesH

The OP didn't strike me as a troll. Just a little disjointed questions.
Without ever having heard the 141s, they would seem to be a good alternative since the OP can try out both AB, coincident and near-coincident methods.
It is ceratinly possible to do great recordings with just two mics. Just get out there and do them

I still give him (or her) the benefit of the doubt. The OP question (i.e., how to record piano with a Masterlink simply and well) should start to clear up.

[mrcomet]

The truth is I suck at the internt. In real life I speak like Mario Cuomo. When I type it all goes to hell...But I digress.

My biggest concern before starting this thread was mainly 2 track recording versus Multi. Got my answer thanks.

Also a bit concerned about the converters on the alesis. I've only used the digital inputs. Got another answer thanks.

As far as mics, small seems good for a number of reasons. You all agree thats nice. I use tree as a general term for anything tall and gangly.

I still wonder if the langevin while spendy and showy and all is a good choice to light up the mics. It's just sitting there. Can anybody help on this point.

So I built this big studio a long time ago, it was fun.

[GuySonic]

Not yet considered is an HRTF stereo-surround array using 2 wideband matched true pressure type omni's. A.K.A. special type of baffled omni mic

Got about a dozen session/performance piano recordings done by Paul Bailey a piano-tuner/musician friend recording 4-5 different pro musicians + 1 amateur and a few done by a pro musician Dukey in SF working the SF symphony and Skywalker projects using HRTF baffled stereo-surround mic direct to 2-track without needing editing

So maybe also good for this thread's project as these sample recordings are all raw unedited.

Recordings at: Sonic Studios MP3 Page 2 with Ambient Stereo-Surround Session and Live Performance Recordings

Usual advantage of HRTF array is the recording seldom needs editing and the raw posted recordings on my site help most hear the benefit of using this type of array for this purpose.

Especially welcome for those lacking having many types mics, time to try out different mic and array approaches, and many years of recording experience.

Also, this particular HRTF mic array (used in these examples) consistently records the 'sound of the piano,' not the usual 'piano sound' of conventional omni/directional mic arrays.

FWIW some actually prefer the natural sound of the piano rather than the usual recorded microphone interpretation, but of course not for everyone's taste in recorded sound. And in my opinion, it's good to have some choice in having natural, or all colored up to be completely different sounding.

[mrcomet]

Thanks for the help everyone but somebody else has stepped in to do the reecordings.