What to get for live recording?

[Mars63]

Hi - I'm a touring, professional live sound engineer who knows nothing about digital recording and would dearly like some advice......
I would like to start recording shows to give bands the option of releasable quality live recordings.
I would need to simultaneously record a minimum of 18 channels (though 24 would be much better) from the direct outs from each mixing desk channel and then be able to mix them on my laptop in my hotel room/tour bus etc.....
I own a 12" 1GHz Powerbook and would like to mix with ProTools if at all possible. I would need something portable and rack-mountable.
What do I need to get?
Would my laptop be capable of recording 18 or more channels?
Would I be better off with a hard-disk recorder like the Alesis HD24XR.
I don't have limitless funds but would be prepared to pay for the right set-up.
The simpler the better!!
All help, recommendations and advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Mark

[TyRip]

I would vote for the HD24XR and an Mbox.

You can record to the Alesis and transfer the files into PT without ever using the Mbox converters, and you will never need more than the 32 channels that PT LE offers.

I would think that would work really well with what you are wanting to do, and an Mbox is about $275 right now with PT, so that isn't such a bad deal as the only thing you would (absolutely) need other than the HD24XR.

It is usually best to run your audio off of a separate drive than your system though, so an external hard drive would be a good investment too, and would help you keep all that audio straight and help you with the space that 20+ channels of 24/44.1 audio needs.

[deepwater]

Another vote for the HD24. You cant beat the stability and ease of use for live recording.

[Mars63]

Originally Posted by TyRip

I would vote for the HD24XR and an Mbox.

You can record to the Alesis and transfer the files into PT without ever using the Mbox converters.

Definately swinging towards the HD24XR. But why do I need the Mbox? Is it just so I can get a copy of PTLE? What about the new PT-M? Is it different/better?

Thanks for your time.

[henryrobinett]

I use Metric Halo 2882+dsp/ULN-2 and a MOTU 2408mkII to get 18 in/18 out with my Powerbook 1gz. Sounds like a lot. But I already had the motu. It's all racked and easy to move. I also have a bunch of Millennia pres to go into the 2408 and then. I use the record panel that comes with the Metric Halo boxes. It records SDII, Wav, AIFF, BWF, CAF, CAF-LE. It's very streamline and easy on the CPU. I've never crashed it.

[TyRip]

Originally Posted by Mars63

Definately swinging towards the HD24XR. But why do I need the Mbox? Is it just so I can get a copy of PTLE? What about the new PT-M? Is it different/better?

Thanks for your time.

Pro Tools only runs when it can see that a Digidesign interface is connected. Think of it as a, big, expensive usb key.

I would get an Mbox for sure. With M-audio, you have to buy the hardware and then pay something ridiculous like $350 for PTLE!

An Mbox will run you somehwere around $300 or less and can be used as a separate interface as well.

You could do 18 ins with a 002, digimax, and another s/pdif input, but that would be way more expensive, way more of a hassle, may overdo it on your PB processing power, won't be anywhere near as stable as the HD24XR, and won't sound as good, IMO.

IMO, your situation is perfect for a used Mbox with PTLE 6.x or 7 and an HD24XR. Plus then you won't even necessarily have to worry about taking your powerbook out to the gig if you don't want to.

[silent E]

Originally Posted by Mars63

Definately swinging towards the HD24XR. But why do I need the Mbox? Is it just so I can get a copy of PTLE? What about the new PT-M? Is it different/better?

Thanks for your time.

PTLE will not run without an Mbox or similar attached, think of it as a dongle. Same goes for PT-M but with selected M-Audio hardware. AFAIK they share the same feature set and capabilties, just require different hardware.

I use a similar Metric Halo rig to Henry and like it a lot, but if I were in your shoes, I'd go the HD24XR plus Mbox route.

Jed

[txgator]

I am also a live engineer. THe most stable setup will be the hd24 or similar hard disk setup that you can mix with the DAW of your choice at your leisure.

I know that the engineer for DMB uses the 3 Metric Halo 2882's. Must be pretty stable. I like the uln-2 that I played around with.

A more expensive option (I don't know if you are carrying gear or using local support) you be bringing a Degidesign Venue with you everywhere. Mix on it and record out of it.

[the1Hub]

Originally Posted by Mars63

from the direct outs from each mixing desk channel and then be able to mix them on my laptop in my hotel room/tour bus etc.....

i would avoid taking the direct out of either the foh or monitor desk unless they direct out can be switch to be pre insert. the first live recording i ever did i made the mistake of doing this. moral of the story... what sound good for the venue dosen't always work for a recording. (ie eq settings comps and GATES) i would rather have the option of doing this in protools then be stuck with a gated snare that sounds like ass. you might look into a set of isolation splits, but you will still need a nother set of pres or a console for the recorder.

and another vote for the hd24 its a good unit but the converters could be better. if youve got the cash the genex machines are really nice.

[Mars63]

Hey Guys - this is fantastic info. Thanks for your input. And please continue to do so.
Feeling more and more like I'll take the HD24XR/MBox route. But if anyone can think of a good reason not to, then please speak now or forever hold your peace.....

Originally Posted by the1Hub

i would avoid taking the direct out of the foh desk unless the direct out can be switch to be pre insert.... what sound good for the venue dosen't always work for a recording. (ie eq settings comps and GATES).

I almost never gate live (working mostly with acoustic acts) and comp sparingly, and only when essential. But most desks I use ARE pre-everything.

[zemlin]

Originally Posted by Mars63

... and then be able to mix them on my laptop in my hotel room/tour bus etc.....

Nothing to add on the recording side of things, but this is the part that puts a furrow in my brow. I take my gear on road trips sometimes - and I spend some time mixing in hotel rooms with headphones.

Once I get back to home base I inevitably have to do some rework after listening through the monitors.

Mixing on the road without a good room and good monitors is going to be risky at best. I'd plan to do the bulk of your mixing in more controlled environment using good monitors.

[Marcus B]

The hardware route is by far the most reliable. A few things to mention that haven't been mentioned already are:

* If the acts are big acts and are relying on the possibility of a show being releasable you may wanna see if you can swing the budget for a second backup unit and record the shows to both machines simultaneously. If the budget can't stretch maybe see if you can put in writing with the band's management/tour manager that if someone goes wrong everyone will just have to take it on the chin. There would be nothing worse than having to tell the band and management that sorry the 'killer show' you just played wasn't recorded because of <insert random variable here>

* If you're carrying a console on the tour and the band is fussy about soundchecks, or you don't ever get enough time it can be handy to have a loom that allows you to patch the recorder outputs back into the board to play back the previous night's show without the band around Not as good as a proper soundcheck but can help you get in the ballpark.

Cheers,
Marcus

[zakco]

Radar 24.
Transfer to a laptop and mbox if you need to mix.

I'd avoid the laptop only route, too unpredictable if the show is important. Speaking from experience there, never again....

-Z-

[Mars63]

Originally Posted by zemlin

Mixing on the road without a good room and good monitors is going to be risky at best. I'd plan to do the bulk of your mixing in more controlled environment using good monitors.

Great point Zemlin.
I'd probably just do rough mixes on the road so that different performances of songs can be compared and the best chosen. Then the Ultimate Show can be compiled and mixed back at home.

Originally Posted by Marcus B

it can be handy to have a loom that allows you to patch the recorder outputs back into the board to play back the previous night's show without the band around.

What a fantastic idea! Perfect for those times when 8 of the band are "Stuck in Traffic"

[sleepwalker]

A backup.