Roy Hargrove's Trumpet Sound

[JazzyMark]

Hello Russ-
I really enjoy all your work with D'angelo, Erykah Badu and Roy Hargrove et al. I'd like to hear about your approach (or approaches) to Roy Hargrove's trumpet on the various records he's played on. For instance, on D'angelo's "Voodoo" the trumpet sound is particularly warm and diffuse, while on the R.H. Factor's "Hard Groove" his sound is much more forward and focused. I understand that on Voodoo he's much more of a sideman, how does this affect your tracking/mixing technique? From the quality of the high end I assume you were using ribbon mics. I often find it difficult to fit open trumpet sounds into dense layers of arrangement and wanted to hear your perspective on this. Thank you very much for your time.

Mark Noguchi
Burning Arc Music

[Russell Elevado]

hello mark,

For Roy on voodoo i used an rca 44bx, 77dx, u67 and u47 (not all at the same time...). I went through a neve and an la2a to tape, using medium compression. And i dont think i did too much to him eq and compression wise in the mix. Except when i was really going for an effect.

The secret to Roy's sound is him. That's really all his tone, nice and warm. I just try to get a nice blend on his harmonies and the rest is all Roy!

I definitely approached Roy's horn sounds on the RH Factor albums differently than other albums he's on. I didn't do anything different recording him. But i was definitely more aggressive in the processing when i started mixing it. you are correct in that on voodoo he was a sideman rather than the band leader. As well, he was palying more aggressive.

Sometimes trumpets can get shrill and overpowering even with roy. I like to filter out anywhere from 7k and up, if needed. and using a good compressor will tame it up as well. You can get away with quite a bit of limiting with trumpets and still sound natural. i love la2a's and 1176's on trumpets (actually, i love them on a lot of things!). But sometimes it's a matter of where you sit in the mix.

I'm going to start a thread about my mixing concepts very soon, so i'll expand more on things...

cheers and thanks

[JazzyMark]

Thanks for your reply, as always source is king. I've heard Roy play a few times and you really captured how I remember him sounding (I haven't heard him harmonize himself live, of course ). Do you generally mic him with close mics and room mics and blend them during mixing?

mark noguchi

[Russell Elevado]

Originally Posted by JazzyMark

Thanks for your reply, as always source is king. I've heard Roy play a few times and you really captured how I remember him sounding (I haven't heard him harmonize himself live, of course ). Do you generally mic him with close mics and room mics and blend them during mixing? mark noguchi

hi mark,
indeed, "source is king"! and he is an amazing performer. i can't say enough about roy's genius! i've only close mic'd him...

cheers

[OBO]

So rare to talk trumpet miking!

What is the distance between the trumpet and the mike?

Olivier Bolling

[Russell Elevado]

Originally Posted by OBO

So rare to talk trumpet miking!
What is the distance between the trumpet and the mike?
Olivier Bolling

hey olivier,

nice to get a question from you!
trumbet is a little tricky, huh? usually with a tube mic, i'll and place the trumpet 12" (30.5cm) away for the mic and the player will naturally come closer another 2 or 3 inches. but with the old ribbons, they all have a different "sweet spot" so move it around until you find it. and usuually i'll get a little closer like 7" (18cm). you'll be suprised with any instrument how much a slight tilt or move will do to the sound...

ps: i'm looking forward to the dynax2 and the new mic pre's!

voyez-vous bientôt

[dpb100]

Being a trumpeter myself, I absolutely love Roy's natural tone and he sounds so so good on all the RH factor material and Voodoo (in my top 5 albums ever). The combination of Roy and yourself is incredible - thanks for bringing us such quality sound and music!

[ajfarber]

I recorded Roy with an RCA77 on a Sherman Irby record back in the '90s. The studio didn't have any 44s. I prefer the RCA 44 and the AEA44 is even better. Coles 4038 is also good on trumpet.

[gsbe]

Definitely, Voodoo is in my top 5 as well. Absolutely critical album. Thanks for helping D'angelo, ?love and the others on Voodoo find their sound. Can't wait to read your threads on mixing.

[Remoteness]

I believe that Roy Hargrove's trumpet sound comes from Roy Hargrove himself.
IMO, the mic has nothing to do with his sound; well sort of...

Yes, we are engineer's and we want to use the best mics and equipment available to us, but the musician still is key.

A few weeks back Roy Hargrove was one of the guest performers for a Jonathan Batiste big band recording I recorded and engineered.

Guess what? Roy blow into one of the vocal mics; okay it was a KMS105 which (IMO) happens to sound sweet on horns, but never the less it was a vocal mic. I bet he still would have sounded like "Roy Hargrove" even if played into a SM58.

I mean, it's about the performer every time. Isn't it?

[Roland]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I believe that Roy Hargrove's trumpet sound comes from Roy Hargrove himself.
IMO, the mic has nothing to do with his sound; well sort of...

Yes, we are engineer's and we want to use the best mics and equipment available to us, but the musician still is key.

A few weeks back Roy Hargrove was one of the guest performers for a Jonathan Batiste big band recording I recorded and engineered.

Guess what? Roy blow into one of the vocal mics; okay it was a KMS105 which (IMO) happens to sound sweet on horns, but never the less it was a vocal mic. I bet he still would have sounded like "Roy Hargrove" even if played into a SM58.

I mean, it's about the performer every time. Isn't it?

I wish you had posted this on the RVG thread, exactly the point I was making but some posters didn't want to grasp.

Regards


Roland

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by Roland

I wish you had posted this on the RVG thread, exactly the point I was making but some posters didn't want to grasp.

Regards


Roland

Indeed; I totally understood exactly where you were coming from with regard to RVG thread.

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Guess what? Roy blow into one of the vocal mics; okay it was a KMS105 which (IMO) happens to sound sweet on horns, but never the less it was a vocal mic. I bet he still would have sounded like "Roy Hargrove" even if played into a SM58.

I mean, it's about the performer every time. Isn't it?

For the most part, yes. Obviously if you line up several mics in front of a good player, they will sound good on all. But there will be mics that you prefer and mics that the player prefers. Otherwise we could save ourselves time and money by doing everything with SM57s.

[Remoteness]

Perhaps, but I prefer a SM58 (instead of a SM57) on trumpet.

Originally Posted by ajfarber

For the most part, yes. Obviously if you line up several mics in front of a good player, they will sound good on all. But there will be mics that you prefer and mics that the player prefers. Otherwise we could save ourselves time and money by doing everything with SM57s.

Again, we are indeed engineer's and we want to use the best mics and equipment available to us.
I totally understand that dynamic.

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Perhaps, but I prefer a SM58 (instead of a SM57) on trumpet.



Again, we are indeed engineer's and we want to use the best mics and equipment available to us.
I totally understand that dynamic.

When I had my steady big band gig at Birdland, the house engineer brought his Protools rig in and mic'd up the band with sm57s. 1 on the bass, 1 in the piano, 1 on the guitar and a stereo pair of some SDC for the horns with 2 more sm57s in the trumpets. I took the tracks and put them into logic. I'll be dammed but the sound was almost studio quality!

[Remoteness]

I hear you; placement is everything.

Originally Posted by ajfarber

When I had my steady big band gig at Birdland, the house engineer brought his Protools rig in and mic'd up the band with sm57s. 1 on the bass, 1 in the piano, 1 on the guitar and a stereo pair of some SDC for the horns with 2 more sm57s in the trumpets. I took the tracks and put them into logic. I'll be dammed but the sound was almost studio quality!

[imaginaryday]

i just love these kinds of threads. roy kicks some serious butt.

thank you all for sharing!