OT: Projecting images in classical performance

[jglamar]

A composer friend wants to project images (a slideshow of still images, triggered live by someone following the score) during a performance of a work for flute and orchestra. The images would be projected, perhaps from some considerable distance, onto a screen probably above or behind the orchestra. I am not inclined to get involved with such things but he's a friend.

So - if any of you do this kind of thing all the time and you can tell me the quick-and-dirty solution to making live-controllable slideshows with excellent resolution that can be run from Powerpoint, please PM or respond to the thread, and thanks for reading this OT post and taking a moment to share your wisdom. Maybe you could suggest another forum I can look to for advice. The presenting venue says the format has to be PowerPoint or Quicktime. (Obviously QT won't work for precise triggering of slides though - right?)

Only read further if you'd like to know what we tried last time that was not exactly satisfactory.

The last time I did such a thing I (being a mac-only guy) loaded the slides into iMovie to create 'phrases' with the transitions and zooms we wanted, then loaded the phrases as movies into Keynote for triggering at the proper moments in the performance. Then we fed DV from my Macbook Pro out to the theater's projector. It worked fine in terms of triggering the slides live and having nice transitions and zooms, but as many of you will already have guessed the images were not of an adequate resolution. The problem was not only the projector (though it could have been of better quality) but something in Keynote or iMovie. Here's what was really weird - when looking at the projected image on the screen, the slides looked a bit fuzzy. But when I closed Keynote to check monitor settings or the like, the *desktop* image that was revealed was crystal clear. So it was something in Keynote or iMovie that introduced a bit of dithering or something. I checked the obvious import settings etc., and nothing on the prefs side was set to reduce the resolution of the original images (except for what was required to make pan/zooms work in iMovie). The problem really seemed to be the native action of Keynote or iMovie.

TIA
Jamey

[NorseHorse]

Done this quite a bit.

PPT should do fine. Some things to thing about:

- Make sure the projector and projection surface are bright enough for the venue and time-of-day.
- Make sure the distance is OK in regards to size, brightness, and focus. You may need a throw lens if you are using the projector far away.
- Make sure you actually have somewhere to put the projector. Having an audience out in front and a wall behind can limit your options.

The William and Mary Early Music Ensemble will be projecting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel on the ceiling of the Wren Chapel for their spring concert if anybody wants to swing by.

Cheerio.

[bishopthomas]

Do you have the equipment to pull this off or are you going to be renting? If the latter, maybe it would benefit to have the A/V company take a look at your space to see what they're/you're working with. It shouldn't be too complicated, but there are a lot of "gotchyas" involved in video work (as you have already found out).

For inexpensive solutions maybe try posting a Craigslist ad. There seems to be no shortage of "work for peanuts" type ads there, so you might as well join them.

[Larry Elliott]

Be very concerned about noise - I have been to several concerts that had video projected and the noise from the fans in the projector was terrible!

Bright projectors get very hot and need fans to keep them at operable temperatures.

Larry

[Corran]

I ran slides off Powerpoint for something similar earlier this year. It's very simple to do in Powerpoint.

Now, in the production I participated in, it also included movies. That turned into a mess, because the person editing the videos wasn't clued in to how it was going to work - he had movies with fade ins and fade outs to black that were supposed to loop indefinitely. That was interesting. I had to rebuild some videos, and a bunch of other stuff. At least I was paid well.

The key here is to have everything ready to go early so there is plenty of time to practice and test. My first full run-through of the above was also the first performance..., though this was not my fault - I was just running the thing!

The above posters all have very good points about the projector. We had a permanent installation done for this show, so it worked out fine. The projector was in the catwalk above the stage.

[jglamar]

Thanks to all posters.
Ease of use is not the issue (as I mentioned, running the slides from Keynote works great and I vastly prefer it to PPT). The question is about resolution of the image. Does anyone who has actual experience using PPT for this know for sure that it introduces absolutely zero degradation of the image?
And thanks for all the comments about noise and how to procure a projector, etc., but those issues are out of the purview of my (sorry, still quite OT I know) question.
Thanks again,
Jamey

[NorseHorse]

PPT = WYSIWYG... because it isn't sending something separate to the projector. Just use the extra output on your computer to run to the LCD. It just mirrors your screen.

Just make sure you computer and projector are on the same settings (usually 1024 x something).

PS. Don't forget to check colors. I can't count the number of times I've heard "gee, that yellow text didn't show up the way I wanted it too" or something of that nature.

[Barnabas]

Power Point or Keynote will be fine for showing still images.

Your images got fuzzy when you put iMovie output into Keynote. If you are just doing still images, import them directly into PowerPoint or Keynote.

The standard PowerPoint slide size is 720 x 540 pixels. I use Photoshop to size my photos before importing them into PowerPoint. 720x540 is fine for most shows, but I double the size to 1440 x 1080 when I'm using a big projection screen. Anything larger than that just makes the slides load slower and bloats the PowerPoint file.

PowerPoint and Keynote are not going to degrade the quality of the photos, the projector will. If possible, get the remote control and adjust the projector color settings until you get the right look on the screen. I've worked with projectors that I could never get the color right on.

[matthewd]

You might like to have a look at Qlab which is great for this kind of thing. I just did a Steve Reich Three Tales Digital Video opera using this. We were using midi triggers to cue lighting and all sorts as well as projecting the video so it might be a hammer to crack a nut, BUT there is a pretty fully functioning free version of it. If not for this job, its certainly one to know about, if of course you don't already. I was really impressed with it and it is my system of choice for those theater sound effects cuing jobs whereby you just build the show by drag and drop. There are some weird things to do with length of DVI Cables and the mini DVI to normal DVI adapters are a must on a job like this unless you are working within reach of an Apple Store during opening hours!


Matt

[hbphotoav]

Unless the projection is set up side stage or behind the band and rear-projected with short-throw lenses (baffle the projector/s with velour pipe-and-drape <no cheap banjo cloth> for both noise and brightness), and house lights are way, way down (or off)... OR unless there is a 7,000-10,000 lumen projector in the hall's baffled projection booth with a proper lens for the throw distance and screen size... and house lights are way, way down or off... it will be a most unsatisfying experience for you, the producer of the visuals, and the audience alike. Proper adapters (mini->DVI; mini->VGA; DVI->VGA, VGA->RGBHV, etc., depending on the I/O of the computer and projector/s), quality low-loss VGA/RGBHV runs, and proper aspect/crop/pixel shape (if the slides were edited in a video program) are all issues that *might* arise unbidden.

A proper setup and rehearsal/soundcheck a day before would be advisable, so all resulting gremlins can be hunted down and killed.

Otherwise... have fun!

[locutus]

We used to do stuff like this back in the 80s, with 35mm slides, multiple projectors, dissolver unit, long lenses, etc. This was before video projection was feasible. I doubt you could find that kind of equipment around any more. But with quality source material, the resolution could be great. Like cinema.

The issue for you will be the original resolution of the images, and the resolution of the projector. Try to rent a high resolution projector. If needed, you can stack projectors for increased image brightness, but precise alignment would be critical.

Nathan

[digitalolive]

Just did one like this last night. First half was Stella Sung's Rockwell Reflections. Images of Norman Rockwell paintings were projected on a 16 x 22 screen hung above the orchestra. Second half was Peter Boyer's Ellis Island with projected images and live actors reading from journals of Ellis Island immigrants. We did rear projection with a 4500 lumen projector flown from a pipe with the down pipe snaked between the ceiling clouds of the orchestra shell. The images sequences were triggered from my Macbook Pro while following the score and the output run through a standard video switcher. I usually like to have a more powerful projector in the 10-12,000 range but they get quite expensive. The evening was quite a success overall and everyone was quite happy.

Steven Lemke

[Thomas W. Bethe]

I have been to a couple of concerts at the local college and have seen this done very well and really really badly . The ones that were done really well had someone who knew what they were doing running the equipment and they used top of the line equipment. The other ones were done by someone trying to cheap out and use inferior projectors and projection screens. If this is done correctly it can be AMAZING! If done incorrectly it can look very amateurish and not at all what the person thought it would be.

FWIW and YMMV

[digitalolive]

We also did Pictures at an Exhibition this season while we projected images painted by students at the Ringling College of Art which were inspired by the music.

Our next projection concert is Charlie Chaplin's "City Lights" where we play the score while the film shows above on the big screen.

It seems to be the direction things are headed. Trying to bring in new audiences has led to video being the primary stimulus of the concert sometimes.