Backup HDD system

[BFSound]

For a remote rig i read most people write files to an external drive then bounce to the internal for working on.

We will be using the studiolive and it has two firewire outs and i was thinking it would be a good idea to have one going directly into a backup HDD device and the other going to our laptop and then having another HDD plugged into the laptop for writing files to? Does this make sense and will a few rackmount HDD systems be able to handle to road? I was thinking of having them in a normal rack, then i was thinking a shockmount rack case, then i thought maybe the HDD's get they're own shockmount FX case and they HDD's stay out of the trailor?

Any suggestions for a good rackmount HDD system i can configure with a few TB of HDD space and later on add new drives as the old ones fill up. i saw one on OWC that i liked?

Thanks

[BFSound]

Something like this:

OWC Rack Mount HDD Hard Drive Storage Solutions FireWire 800 FireWire 400 USB 2.0 eSATA

[locutus]

You don't want one of these unless you have an isolated machine room to put it into. Those little fans will scream. Most computer equipment is built with no regard for sonics.

Most rigs that I have seen use external single drives. I use the OWC firewire enclosures. They have one version with a fan and one without. Even the version with a fan is rather quiet. Actually the drive mechanism, platters spinning and heads seeking, is louder than the fan. I now purposely buy 5400 RPM drives, because they are quieter. I have used 7200, 10K, and 15K RPM drives and I just don't have a need for the speed and a 15K RPM drive is very loud.

On remote rigs, I actually use an OWC bus powered FW drive. The little 2.5" drive is quieter, no PSU, and less to carry. I have never had a problem with drive speed, but it could possibly be an issue if you run high enough track counts.

If you want rack mount, Glyph makes drive enclosures aimed at the pro audio market with attention to such needs. They have quiet fans and can be rack mounted. However, Glyph's prices have usually kept me away.

(Actually the last Glyph I bought was a SE SCSI enclosure for my PT III, NuBus PowerMac 7100, rig 15 years ago. I had to carry a 17" CRT monitor for my "portable" rig.)

Regards.

Nathan Eide

[mixedupsteve]

The firewire ports are daisychained so you can use more than one device. I don't know of any way to write data to a harddrive connected to the boardand another connected to the laptop at the same time. If you want a backup recording drive then you should consider a raid setup.
The reason people often record on an external is so they can transfer the files to a workstation where they mixdown. Also the recording computer can have the operating system running on the internal while writing on the external. That way a single drive isn't forced to read and write while recording.

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by locutus

You don't want one of these unless you have an isolated machine room to put it into. Those little fans will scream. Most computer equipment is built with no regard for sonics.

Most rigs that I have seen use external single drives. I use the OWC firewire enclosures. They have one version with a fan and one without. Even the version with a fan is rather quiet. Actually the drive mechanism, platters spinning and heads seeking, is louder than the fan. I now purposely buy 5400 RPM drives, because they are quieter. I have used 7200, 10K, and 15K RPM drives and I just don't have a need for the speed and a 15K RPM drive is very loud.

On remote rigs, I actually use an OWC bus powered FW drive. The little 2.5" drive is quieter, no PSU, and less to carry. I have never had a problem with drive speed, but it could possibly be an issue if you run high enough track counts.

If you want rack mount, Glyph makes drive enclosures aimed at the pro audio market with attention to such needs. They have quiet fans and can be rack mounted. However, Glyph's prices have usually kept me away.

(Actually the last Glyph I bought was a SE SCSI enclosure for my PT III, NuBus PowerMac 7100, rig 15 years ago. I had to carry a 17" CRT monitor for my "portable" rig.)

Regards.

Nathan Eide

Who cares about noise im going to be recording a frickin rock concert where i wont be able to hear squat anyway! If you click on the middle config it says designed for audio, video work? So how can it be so loud they are only 7k drives?

The reason for rackmount is i do not want to show up and have to set up 4 external drives this can be mounted in my UPS power rack and simply rolled in and plugged in and im done no little drives to carry around!

Thanks

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by mixedupsteve

The firewire ports are daisychained so you can use more than one device. I don't know of any way to write data to a harddrive connected to the boardand another connected to the laptop at the same time. If you want a backup recording drive then you should consider a raid setup.
The reason people often record on an external is so they can transfer the files to a workstation where they mixdown. Also the recording computer can have the operating system running on the internal while writing on the external. That way a single drive isn't forced to read and write while recording.

I know thats why people do that lol thats why i want to do it as well! I figured if something happened to the computer the studiolive would still be outputting data to a seperate drive does that not work or make sense?

Whats the deal with RAID what kind of setup would i look at?

Thanks

[HughH]

Hello,
The software in the Studiolive won't talk to two separate recording systems at the same time. It becomes an I/O device for one computer only.
Hugh

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by HughH

Hello,
The software in the Studiolive won't talk to two separate recording systems at the same time. It becomes an I/O device for one computer only.
Hugh

Thanks, and come to think of it it has db25 outs correct so if i wanted backup i could just go to a DAT device?

So then an HDD for the studiolive is out. After recording to say an external drive does it matter whether you bounce to the internal or not for mixdown? So basically i should just get a good desktop HDD, Still can someone point me to some other rackmount HDD setups with firewire connection...

Thanks

[BFSound]

Tell which of these two you would prefer?

1: Plug & Play RAID 1 Mirror FireWire 800/400+USB2 Redundant Storage Solutions up to 2.0TB - OWC Mercury Elite-AL Pro

2: Plug & Play RAID 0+1 Mirrored Performance Stripe FireWire 800/400+USB2 Redundant Performance Storage Solutions up to 4.0TB - OWC Mercury Elite-AL Pro

#1 is good but i think #2 will give me the speed off raid-0 in a raid-1 mirror config.

Thanks

Also im still leaning toward the rack mount version so i dont have to worry about a desktop one, my only concern is are the drives going to be able to handle the road in a road case? either in our trailer or under our bus which would suffer from less shock since its air ride!

[BFSound]

And as far as road cases are concerned im looking at the EWI ones which i think are priced nice and look good, any other options out there for less $$ or same price?

Should my splitter box be in a shock mount case or will regular do, same with the UPS and power rack will that suffice in a normal road case?

Thanks again, sorry for so many questions

[mixedupsteve]

Originally Posted by BFSound

Thanks, and come to think of it it has db25 outs correct so if i wanted backup i could just go to a DAT device?

So then an HDD for the studiolive is out. After recording to say an external drive does it matter whether you bounce to the internal or not for mixdown? So basically i should just get a good desktop HDD, Still can someone point me to some other rackmount HDD setups with firewire connection...

Thanks

If I were you I'd take the Dsub outs to a HD24 for your backup.
I usually use an external drive to record on and I also have an external on my desktop. When I record I create a folder on the remote HDD and then do a copy/paste of the whole folder onto my desktop external HDD.

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by mixedupsteve

If I were you I'd take the Dsub outs to a HD24 for your backup.
I usually use an external drive to record on and I also have an external on my desktop. When I record I create a folder on the remote HDD and then do a copy/paste of the whole folder onto my desktop external HDD.

Cool thats what i was thinking as far as the DB connectors goes.

You think the rackmount would be a good recording HDD setup then i could get a desktop version for doing copy/paste like you mentioned..

I was thinking this for recording to, a Raid 10 setup so i get back up and speed.

OWC Rack Pro 1U 4-Bay Hardware RAID 0/1/5/10 Quad Interface FireWire 800/400+USB2+eSATA Performance Solutions

Then i can copy the files to this to work on and mix them later and not have to have the whole rack with me:

OWC Mercury Elite-AL Pro USB 2.0 Dual-Drive + Powered USB 2.0 Hub Storage Solutions - Up to 2.0TB Of Hard Drive Capacity with 3-Port USB2 Powered Hub

Thanks

As for the hd24 how would i connect the DB25 connectors (2 of them) to the hd24, and do i just use it as backup, if i want to ge the files of it do i need the hd24 firewire port or whatever? or can i take the analog outs back into my studiolive or something?

[david335]

If you are worried about the drive's saftwy while you are on the road I reccomend that you get the desktop version and a pelican case with foam. This way after the gig you can put the drives in the case and make sure that they stay protected. I know that I have droped a case full of hard drives from 3 feet (it was accidental) onto pavement and they drives were fine and the case was barely scuffed.

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by david335

If you are worried about the drive's saftwy while you are on the road I reccomend that you get the desktop version and a pelican case with foam. This way after the gig you can put the drives in the case and make sure that they stay protected. I know that I have droped a case full of hard drives from 3 feet (it was accidental) onto pavement and they drives were fine and the case was barely scuffed.

Yea i do agree im just trying to limit the amount of smaller cases i have to keep track of and load etc... Where as if i had the rack mount unit it would go in the rack with my UPS ect... then i can just roll it in plug in set the mixer up and plug into my laptop and done, and i don't have to worry about someone stealing a desktop drive if its rack mounted. Having a case for HDD's and then all the cases for camera's and that gear? I havent ruled the desktop drives out im just trying to balance + and - of each. Would a rack mount HDD hold up on the road or would riding in a case in a trailor cause it to fail or loose data?

Thanks