Drum cymbals: how do you dampen them (small venues etc..)

[George Necola]

how do you guys "lower" the volume of the cymbals? I am talking about small venues (100 people) and real metal drums..

I know.. drummers should be able to play them softly... use different cymbals.. not an option.

I just want to "lower" them in volume..
is there a special material, product available?


cheers
G

[The Listener]

Originally Posted by George Necola

how do you guys "lower" the volume of the cymbals? I am talking about small venues (100 people) and real metal drums..

I know.. drummers should be able to play them softly... use different cymbals.. not an option.

I just want to "lower" them in volume..
is there a special material, product available?


cheers
G

I would like to know, too... But I doubt there is such a solution... (especially such that the drummers would be o.k. with) for personal solution - earplugs, for the crowd - no overheads, only close tom, snare and kick mics, maybe hi hat if needed... usually this is enough "cymbal reduction", since the rest of such metal bands' members are not quiet either... Actually I have more problems with guitarists, who can't hear themselves even when they turn their amps up to "11". I do live sound in one small club quite often, but mostly with post-rock, indie bands, which are in general subtle and dynamic, but occasionally there is a really noisy band and sometimes the only thing left on FOH are the vocals or I make everything really louder than those cymbals, but "FAT" sounding - a lot of hi-end and high mids cutting and taking good care that I remain in "green" with all the signals, so I have as clean and undistorted signal as possible,to prevent adding more "harshness" to the already overdriven band's sound... so the venue gets literally filled with sound - you drown the cymbals with lifting up the rest of the spectrum - it is not good for the audience that doesn't wear earplugs... but most "metal-heads" actually enjoy the excessive loudness, if it's not too abrasive...

[George Necola]

I hear you.

I just want to know if there is a industry solution, such as damper pads.. something easy was to put 2 cymbals on top of each other.. I do that for recording studio sometimes, when I overdub the cymbals afterwards.. but that is too much.

cheers
G

Originally Posted by The Listener

I would like to know, too... But I doubt there is such a solution... (especially such that the drummers would be o.k. with) for personal solution - earplugs, for the crowd - no overheads, only close tom, snare and kick mics, maybe hi hat if needed... usually this is enough "cymbal reduction", since the rest of such metal bands' members are not quiet either... Actually I have more problems with guitarists, who can't hear themselves even when they turn their amps up to "11". I do live sound in one small club quite often, but mostly with post-rock, indie bands, which are in general subtle and dynamic, but occasionally there is a really noisy band and sometimes the only thing left on FOH are the vocals or I make everything really louder than those cymbals, but "FAT" sounding - a lot of hi-end and high mids cutting and taking good care that I remain in "green" with all the signals, so I have as clean and undistorted signal as possible,to prevent adding more "harshness" to the already overdriven band's sound... so the venue gets literally filled with sound - you drown the cymbals with lifting up the rest of the spectrum - it is not good for the audience that doesn't wear earplugs... but most "metal-heads" actually enjoy the excessive loudness, if it's not too abrasive...

[666666]

Are YOU the drummer that needs to reduce cymbal volume, or just the recordist dealing with some other drummer?

First thing that comes to mind to reduce drum and cymbal volume, if you are not able to play at very soft dynamics, is to use the thinnest, lightest sticks you can possibly be able to deal with. Doing so will effect sound / tone, possibly in a negative way, but it will also reduce overall amplitude per the amount of dynamic you're putting into the sticks. Whenever I need to play a small club, I always switch to thin sticks (and tune the drums accordingly, use thinner heads, thinner cymbals, etc)

Or use those Vic Firth "rute" brush / sticks. These are the "brush-like" sticks made of bundled up thin wood dowel rods... do a search and you'll find. These work better than you might expect at reducing overall volume on drums while still sounding a lot like "sticks" (and not brushes).

If you just want to muffle existing cymbals so you can still beat on them with heavy sticks while reducing overall amplitude... you can muffle them with just about anything. In the past I've taped small circles of towel material to the tops of the cymbals, etc. Experiment. Doing this will of course make the cymbals sound a little goofy, with a short, muffled decay, but... you can't get something for nothing.

If this situation is important to you, you should really consider getting smaller, thinner, and perhaps "darker" cymbals... AND use thinner sticks.

I do understand the problem here. In certain situations, the music being played does call for a lively, energetic performance which really does not allow for "super soft light-touch" type playing. But in many cases you may be forced to keep your volume down. I avoid these situations at all costs and will refuse gigs that I know will present this type of problem. Acoustic drums have an inherent "volume", that's the nature of the instrument... you really cannot "turn them down". If the venue cannot handle the volume of acoustic drums, then acoustic drums are simply not appropriate for the venue and should not be used. Perhaps consider an alternative, do an "unplugged" percussion type thing perhaps, etc.

Which reminds me... there are always V-Drums!!! Even if you do not wish to play V-Drums, perhaps you could replace your real cymbals with V-cymbals...? Just an idea. In my opinion, there is only ONE real advantage to V-Drums... you can turn them down. Other than that I hate those buggers.

[LX3]

You can tape the underside of a ride cymbal with gaffer. Add one or maybe two strips of gaffer tape running from the bell to the edge of the cymbal.

It won't exactly reduce the volume of the cymbal, but it will attenuate the sustain quite a lot, leaving you mainly with the "ping"... which will reduce the space that the cymbal takes up in the mix and the overall brightness of sound - which means it'll seem quieter.

Crash cymbals... the only real option is to use smaller, thinner crashes. A thin 15" crash can sound in the same ballpark as a 16" medium, only quieter and quicker. Just need to be careful not to over-hit thin cymbals, because they will eventually crack if the drummer smacks the hell out of them. But since the object is to play quieter, there shouldn't be any temptation to do that.

IME, electronic cymbals suck big-time, even more than electronic drums.

[7rojo7]

plexiglass around the kit helps isolation all around, no OH was suggested, just don't tell the drummer, gaffer's tape with a crumpled up ball of paper under it (palm sized) don't think Moon gel will work on cymbals, whatever you do the drummer wont like it, plexi is the best

[RubixGroove]

I've found that I have had good luck with two or three pieces of strategically placed tape. Instead of just putting the tape on the under-side of the cymbal, flat, you should always fold the piece first.

Take a piece of tape and then fold the middle in on itself. When you stick it to the cymbal, you should have a "flap" sticking up. I've found that this works better than just letting the tape lay flat on the cymbal. I also use this one my snare drum if there's too much cut, which I've found depends on the material the venue's built out of!


is sort of what it looks like... the flat part at the bottom being the part that's sticking to the cymbal/drum head.

Hope that makes sense... never tried explaining this WITHOUT having the tape in my hand!

[huub]

Also.. If you use omnis for toms (dpa 4061 for example), the leakage from cymbals into tom mics sounds pretty nice (whereas leakage into senn clip or 421's is pretty ugly). That way you can lower or mute the overheads..

Not saying this is your solution, but you know... Just saying

huub

[thebaron]

Is this for live recording or simply performance reasons?
People are talking overheads but the initial question sounded like it was more an issue of simply keeping the volume down for a small gig.

If it's just a gig and you're not trying to capture a "sound for the ages", hot rods or any variation or brand are helpful. Those are similar to the above described brush/sticks.

Also, use the smallest crash you have and don't bring the other ones. You said you didn't want to buy more cymbals. Well, then play fewer ones for a smaller gig leaving the big ones at home. Use a splash, if you have it, a small 12" or 14" crash and maybe a 16" as your biggest.
You could ride on an 18" but tape the underside to kill the buildup of wash.

You could experiment with having different materials draped over the cymbal. Maybe you can find something that bounces a little and allows a little more sustain. Something less heavy and deadening than rubber but still cuts down on sound. Try different things you have laying around the house...different thicknesses of cloth, cardboard, paper. Who knows. Most will sound like crap but you might luck out. If you do, let us know! All you have to do is poke a hole in the material and slide it over the cymbal felts.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by George Necola

how do you guys "lower" the volume of the cymbals? I am talking about small venues (100 people) and real metal drums..
I just want to "lower" them in volume..
is there a special material, product available?

there are cymbal versions of Sound-Offs, they will mute about 80% of the sound of the cymbal, cheap too, about $7. But they are a practice tool, not really a performance option. It reduces the crash of the cymbal to a slightly metallic knocking sound. It drapes over the cymbal and you play your stick on the triangular part, you hit through the rubber. I have a set for my whole kit, it is amazing volume-wise, but there No sound there anymore. It's just a multi-practice pad.

anything that would lower the volume of the cymbal by any meaningful amount would also drastically alter the sustain and frequency response of the cymbal. I have used a wisp or two of tape, up to maybe a clothespin, but only for tonal purposes.

drummers should be able to play them softly... use different cymbals.. not an option.

If your drummer is going to be uncooperative to the point of refusing to play softly, refusing to use lighter sticks, and refusing to use different cymbals, how much chance do you have of getting him to put dampers on his cymbals?

If you put a gun to his head, I bet the drummer would choose the lighter cymbals or the lighter sticks over any kind of dampening system.

I think getting a Plexi for the drum set is the second best idea so far, just behind the threat of deadly force. Be sure to humiliate the guy for being so unflexible that he has to be put in a box.

[pan]

how to tell these guys to use thinner sticks or not bashing the shit out of the cymbals...