Sending audio wirelessly to camera from flash recorder

[trohet]

So i got a shoot coming up where they asked me to send the audio i was recording to my flash recorder (702t) to their camera (ex3) wirelessly because the camera op will be highly mobile in outdoors areas and does not want to be teathered to the poor sound guy. Now I was trying to think of a way to do this with my own equipment so i figured i would try using my sennheiser wireless transmitters/receivers to send the line level signal from the line outs of my recorder > into the line input of the wireless, that then sends to the receiver and outputs audio into the camera.

So, I set up a test playing back recorded audio from my recorder sending out the wireless transmitter to the receiver and then the receiver plugged into my mixer (302), so that i may monitor what the audio sounded like while i set the input level and AF out of the sennheiser trans/rec. No matter what sens/af out level combination i try the signal is horrably modulated and distorted. I then tried fiddling with the output level of the 702t and tried everything between 0dbu @-20 dbfs and attenuated it by 40 in 1 step increments with no change in distortion just a change in loudness.

Long story short, my line level output from flash recorder sent over sennheiser ev100 g2 is heavily distorted no matter the sens/af out, or recorder line level setting.

Thanks

[John Willett]

Are you plugging the audio into the transmitter's mic. i/p by mistake?

The mini-jack needs to be wired ring and sleeve only, with no connection on the tip.

IE: +ve to ring and screen to sleeve.

The tip is the mic. i/p and the is 5V plug-in power coming out of it to power a mic.

I hope this helps.

[trohet]

well the mic/line input shares the same 3.5mm jack.

I know my recorder's line outs are balanced line level signals.
are you saying that the line level input of my wireless transmitter is unbalanced? and the mic level input is balanced?

sorry if im confusing this.

[audibell]

The line level outs from your recorder need to have a resistor pad placed in the cable before it hits the Tx. Lectro already does this but Telex and others need the resistor net to drop 40/50dB, winkled into the shell of the xlr. Fiddly and best done by people who do it every day but well worth it.
WILCOX SOUND in Burbank do nice work, 1 818 557 3377-Mickey.
rgds
WalterT

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Or you can purchase one from places like Markertek or B&H

PSC | ALMP Line to Mic Level In-Line Barrel Adapter | FPSC0010D

Radio Design Labs RDL TX-LM2 Line Level to Mic Level Transformer Impedance Matching Transformer at Markertek.com

or you can wire your own pad

Line signal to microphone input

Or you could use a DI box like one of these

Direct Boxes | Sweetwater.com

Or you could build a box like this

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/as/as081.pdf

[yoink]

Not what you want to hear, but for production audio I would recommend you use a proper production mixer. Unlike most recorders, the production mixers have mic/line switchable main outs meaning you can use wireless mic gear for your wireless hops even if the wireless gear only had Mic level inputs. They also have proper fine gain control.

If you don't go the padded route (which is so cheap it's worth investing in even if it doesn't make the cut - a full set of -10,-20,-30,-40db pads are great to have) you can rent an older production mixer like a Shure FP33 (or a small quality unit like the SD 302 - which is fantastic) just to get the audio out at mic level to the camera through your existing wireless setup for the wireless hop. Then send mic level out to your sennheiser setup and then mic level in on the cameras.

You may appreciate what a production mixer has to offer when you're shooting, especially the fine gain control which the 702 won't give you - though you can definitely get amazing audio with the 702 (don't get me wrong.)

[mixedupsteve]

Originally Posted by trohet

well the mic/line input shares the same 3.5mm jack.

I know my recorder's line outs are balanced line level signals.
are you saying that the line level input of my wireless transmitter is unbalanced? and the mic level input is balanced?

sorry if im confusing this.

Yes, the input is unbalanced. What is the model number of your Transmitter?
There is a wiring diagram in the operating manual for different models and hookups.

[bigcitysound]

In case you havnt figured this out yet.
The 302's XLR outputs can be attenuated anywhere from +4dBu professional Line level down to around -60dBu all in the setup menu.

You can make up cables that feed either the mic or line input of the Sennheiser G2 transmitters. The inputs are unblanced and the Tip should be wired if you are going to use Mic level and the Ring should be wired if you are using Line level.

Lastly I wouldnt rely on quality on camera sound using the G2 system, just not reliable enough for anything but a scratch track to edit to.
Also I would try to use a sync box of some kind, jammed from your 702T and feeding the cameras TC input (if it has one) So camera and sound files have the same TC.

Best,

Jon Chiles

[yoink]

Originally Posted by bigcitysound

In case you havnt figured this out yet.
The 302's XLR outputs can be attenuated anywhere from +4dBu professional Line level down to around -60dBu all in the setup menu.

You can make up cables that feed either the mic or line input of the Sennheiser G2 transmitters. The inputs are unblanced and the Tip should be wired if you are going to use Mic level and the Ring should be wired if you are using Line level.

Lastly I wouldnt rely on quality on camera sound using the G2 system, just not reliable enough for anything but a scratch track to edit to.
Also I would try to use a sync box of some kind, jammed from your 702T and feeding the cameras TC input (if it has one) So camera and sound files have the same TC.

Best,

Jon Chiles

Some great advice.

If you can convince the production to rent some extra equipment, you'd be best with a Zaxcom stereo wireless hop and an Ambient Lockit (though a Denecke SB-T or SB-3 would do). Ambient stuff is great since you're already using a 702T which uses Ambient's timecode generator circuitry. Get yourself the XL-LL cable and you can Jam the Lockit in an instant. Makes it very painless for the camera person since the Lockit will continue to provide adequate timecode even the camera is powered down and you can re-jam at lunch/on break etc.

The best quality sound gear rental company here in Montreal charges about $40/day for a Denecke SB-2 (which is good enough) and $85/day for a Zaxcome wireless stereo hop (Stereoline.) Those prices are in Canadian dollars, but good for an idea of the general cost.

If you find yourself doing a lot of this kind of work, a good setup will make your life (and the post team's lives) so much simpler, but then again this equipment isn't always in the cards with some productions.

A Sennheiser G3 kit (which is a surprising improvement over the G2) might work for an audio hop without it being a "scratch" track. I got my hands on a G3 kit recently was surprised to say the least, having only used Lectro in the past.

[bigcitysound]

Hey Yoink

Good to hear about your success with the Evolution G3, havnt seen them yet but have used G2's for years. I like them for headphone feeds mostly as the Lectros and Zaxcoms are so much more reliable for talent mic'ing. I hear the Zaxcom stereo camera hop is excellent as well.

Also to the OP, the Denecke SB2(A) or newer SB3 sync box's are perfect if you can get one to rent, they output 29.97 and 23.976 fps and will hold rock steady TC all day, although its good to rejam from your recorder at lunch.