Live Sound Rack

[StratSvante]

Hello everybody!
I just started my live sound career, have never been doing any big gigs but I'm just beginning now. So i was just wondering how you live sound guys do it? How many compressors, reverbs, delays and such do you have in your rack?

Thanks!

[jeremyglover]

depends on the band and where you tour.
in europe 90% of the clubs have great gear so mics are covered. i bring a Distressor, RNC, RNLA for compression (because i like the sound of them) , a kaos pad (for quick and easy FX) and a couple of 58's .. i always have my cd's to tune the PA and a bunch of connecters to keep me out of trouble (RCA-JACK-XLR etc) ..
good luck, don't stress and have fun!
jeremy

[Darm]

4 channel gate device, or 2 2channel gate/compressor devices like dbx 1066 will cover you up...
It's nice to have one delay and one reverb unit- so you can put their returns on two different channels.
Gate the drums , compress the kick and vocals- and you'll be done =)

[Funk-O-Meter]

I'm in America and I work mainly in medium sized clubs where you have no idea what your going to be dealing with.

The rack is 6 space SKB just cause it's easier to carry. But put it in a good place in the trailer and you can't fly with it. Maybe a 4 space if your gonna carry on but never check an SKB.

Furman Power
6 RNC's
2 DBX 160x's
Drawmer DS201

DBX's are on their way out slowly. Drawmer comps coming and I'm perhaps a Lexi 400.

I'm currently re-wiring the stuff to be all on individual single point TRS's with adapters to break them out into 2 point TRS ends.

I'm also going to build a few adapters that allow me to plug in 2 units into one TRS insert point on a console. Kind of a Y-cable if you will but wired differently. That way I can run anything into anything regardless of connector type on the units and won't have to dive into the rack to reconfigure.

Cabling is always something to consider. Most folks wire everything balanced send and return on separate TRS and then use adapters to get to single point TRS. My gear is unbalanced cause the RNC's are and it really doen't matter when your insert snake is only 6 feet. Most of the rooms I do have single point insert desks and if they have anything nicer with XLR points they've got decent outboard anyway. *Usually*

[nedorama]

if you're doing the shows, get a digital board like the 01v96 from Yamaha with built in parametric EQ, dynamics and effects on every channel.

With a digital board, look into a UPS such as the Tripplite - helps to ensure clean power into your digital board/effects no matter what the power is like at your show.

DI's - get several Radial JDIs as you never know the quality of DIs in a place. Great sounding, noise free and indestructible.

Mics - 58s, 57s, e906 for guitar cabs, Audix D6 for kick

Other - power tester - for smaller bar/club gigs, plug this in first to ensure that the plug is wired correctly before you hook in and trash your gear. Less than $5 at Home Depot and worth it.

For analog rack gear -

• Rane PE15 parametric EQs that can be inserted on channels to deal with feedback/tonal issues on a per-channel basis
• Crossover - simple dbx analog crossover; in digital, you could go for the dbx Driverack 260, the Peavey VSX48 or similar. Don't waste money on a Driverack PA or PX. You may not need it, but you can use it as a parametric EQ, delay, etc. and may be much better quality than what is there.
• dbx231 graphic EQ (minimum, the 2231 is better) for ringing out monitors. Some like the Alesis digital EQ as you can get 8 EQs out of it and it has analog and ADAT connectors.
• Your choice of digital effects - TC, Lexicon, etc.
• Compressor - while the 1066 is OK, more often than not you'll want compression and gating - the 1066 gives you one or the other. Get a 1046, which is 4 compressors in 1 rack space and a 1074, which is 4 gates in 1 rack space.

[Funk-O-Meter]

My 2 main rules of live sound:

1. Stay cool.
2. The band will always f*&% up your plan.


Secondary rules:

3. Sometimes it can't be done.
4. There's always gonna be somebody it's too loud for.
5. People are gonna tell you how to do you job. Deal with it professionally.


Are you working w/ a band? Starting your own business with a rid? Working in a club?

You'll find that half of your job is stage/people management. Unless your organization can afford a stage/tour manager which is rare. Buy a watch. Try and keep things on time.

Good luck.

[Rondel]

Originally Posted by Funk-O-Meter

My 2 main rules of live sound:

1. Stay cool.
2. The band will always f*&% up your plan.


Secondary rules:

3. Sometimes it can't be done.
4. There's always gonna be somebody it's too loud for.
5. People are gonna tell you how to do you job. Deal with it professionally.


Are you working w/ a band? Starting your own business with a rid? Working in a club?

You'll find that half of your job is stage/people management. Unless your organization can afford a stage/tour manager which is rare. Buy a watch. Try and keep things on time.

Good luck.

Fantasic! love how you've put it

For basic PA I expect for outboard:
(And I start with the most important to the most luxuary at last)

- Delay (most important instead of reverb because of the room sound of small spaces)
- Reverb

- 4 compressors:
-Vocals (with xlr split cable to put monitor send on separate channel, will heip a lot to reject feedback! = seperate EQ and no comp on the monitor)
-Bass comp = steady bass level = fundation of the music
-solo comp for solo guitars, sax,....

- 4 gates: kick + toms (+snare)

- 31band main EQ


I always have my litle rack with channelstrip for vocal, transient designer (wich can act as a sort of gate in small situations, also as a bass comp if you want), and a backup reverb/delay in case there isn't a decent unit available.
Also a Beta57 for vocals and a Shure PZM kick drum mic, wich sounds always deep and detailed without a gate on small systems.

succes!

[Big_Bang]

I've been asked by a close friend to do live for his band. I really love these guys and believe in them, so hell yeah! Love the free beer too .

I'm slowly building a rack, so far I've got

Furman surge protector and power distributer
1x Alesis Midiverb 4
3x stereo/dual mono Symetrix 425 (that I recently tried in studio and fell in LOVE)

I don't have a mixer yet, working on that...

Question is, how do you guys hook up to the clubs system? Tape out to P.A mixer?

Any special precautions (appart from UPS/ AC cleaner)?

thanks

[Schneider]

i recommend

Drawmer DS201's for gates (usually a pair)

Dbx 160x comps (or Distressors if you can afford them)

Used some TC reverbs and delays i quite like

Maybe some Multibands in-case the venue isn't kitted out

and some nice KT or Radial DI's

[Rondel]

Just bought a SPL Frontliner!
Ordered a unit with the Lundahl transformers and using a demo-unit for now.
The tube drive really kicks ass!

[Turdadactyl]

If you have mad cash and a need for 8 compressors in minimal space, I just heard one of these at a show a couple weeks ago. Obviously, the whole rack and the sound guy made the sound, but it sounded REALLY good...so I'll give the guy a +1 for everything in his rack.

Dynamics - Square ONE, Klark Teknik

[nedorama]

To add on to my earlier post:

get good cables. None of this hosa junk - go straight to Audiopile.net and get your cables. Great for bar bands. For racks, you can get a premade TRS insert snake into Xlr male and female for your dynamics patching in.

Other things very important:
ebtech Hun eliminator - sometimes you've got shitty power, etc and can't chase down the hum. These work (have one) and are small enough to bring in the bag.

Stereo RCA to stereo 1/8 cable - for playing an iPod, connecting a zoom H2 for recording.

iPod with AIFF quality songs for checking system, patron walkin, etc.

Gaff tape.

White board tape and black sharpie.

Extra TRS-XLR patch cAbles.

Speakon connectors in case you need to connect 2 lengths of speakon cable.

Headphones.

If you have a digital console and digital effects, get a tripplite 1RU UPS. Will keep poor power noise out of your system and if the breaker flips momentarily you don't lose your show. Power surge bars are USELESS and may be more of a problem for noise from MOV resistors going bad. Read up on this as you're not as safe as you think.

Flashlight

On effects - below a certain quality threshold, I'd just say no. Would rather do a show with a Mackie 1642 alone than with some bad Alesis Midiverbs or Behringer dynamics, etc. If you can afford something with a detachable IEC power socket and XLR I/O, great. Otherwise do without and save your money. You'll be better off waiting to have good gear than trying to dial in a rack of crap. As someone who tried the cheap stuff, it's a lot of hassle fighting the gear to get a good sound. On those shows (mackie 1642, dbx 1046, lexicon mpx200, spx90, behringer feedback destroyer, driverack PA) you never have enough time to set up and dial it all in, even with gear I'd owned for years.

Ended up just doing shows with the Mackie and the Spx.

Sold all that gear and bought a used 01v; setup and control is nowba lit easier with better sound on all channels.

Again, buy once cry once. Avoid the Behringer crap like the plague - no one wants to see that when they walk in and I fundamentally have a problem with their practice of ripping off other company's designs and having horrible quality control. I'm not saying you need an APB analog or an LS9, but a MixWiz or an 01v would be a good start.

[Big_Bang]

Rondel,

How are you liking your Frontliner? I have a Channel One in the studio and its my fav workhorse pre!

nedorama,

great post... The band I will be backing up barely uses audible delay or verb, just that slight touch to sparkle things a bit. I know the midiverb is crappy (I recently opened a thread in the low end forum to get some peep's opinion on usability... zero answers ) ... but it was recently given to me and I thought, well... 1-3% mix of something bad is better than 0% Lex.
If it were a wet gig... that would completely change things around !

What about the Furman 1U surge protector? Its best not to have it? What about the risk? Alternatives?

just added some numbers on a piece of paper... I might as well just sell the whole damn rack and buy a proper mixer!

[trompetfreak]

As said, here in Europe most venues are pretty lucky. I always bring mics.
People don't seem to care about others mics, and throw around with them. I know my own mics are well taken care of, so they can be trusted.
Depending on the gig, i prepare a rack.

If it's a small venue with some rock-like band, I bring my BBE MaxCom to insert on the masters. I can boost the lows, tweak the highs and give it a bit of compression to compensate for the harshness of the hall.
I then also bring my Lexicon to reverb, because sometimes all you get is a behringer multi-fx, and i don't like that...


For other gigs I bring my Metric Halo 2882. Sometimes for inserts; the channelstrips on the DSP are really nice. Sometimes for reverbs with the Altiverb. Sometimes for recording.

And the mics:
sm58
sm57
DPA 4006
km184 (2)
M88
M201

It all depends on my mood, the gig, the band, the hall and the demands of the customer what I bring.

[waxx]

it depends but a rather typical rack setup here when working on an analog mixing board is:

4 x comp (mostly a dbx 160A, sometimes distressor)
4 gates (mostly drawmers)
1 sfx unit (mostly lexicon pcm81 or tc reverb x000 series)
1 delay (mostly tc d-two)
one or more graphic eq's (klark teknik or dbx mostly)
and a music player (cd player, laptop, ipod, ...)

sometimes there is also a golden channel for the lead singer (avalon 737 or focusrite red7 or isa430 are the popularest here) and a recorder (mostly 2 track from the master) for the concerts.

and of coure the tools like mentioned below (extra quality di's, flashlight, electric multimeter, multitool, solder iron, dBmeter, spare connectors and cables, cheap foldbackmic for the engineer, more than one roll of gafa tape, ...) should be standard in the case of any live engineer, freelancing or on his own system/fixed venue.

[dbbubba]

I have done MANY MANY years of live mixing and I have found that if the venue, band or promoter has not provided a sound system with adequate processing it probably won't be decent enough that I would want to use much anyways.
I rarely bring anything.

Fortunately, I don't mix music in too many situations like this any longer.

IF I have a good system or use one of my own systems I want comps on all vocals, bass and then kick and snare... in that order of importance.
I'd rather have comps than anything else.

I'd also rather have a decent delay instead of a reverb, but if I have both I'll use the DDL on lead vocal and maybe the reverb on the snare (barely.)
I can get by with just the DDL on vocals and I have some tricks and settings that I have developed over the years that give a nice ambience to the vocals, but don't clutter the mix.
HINT: The system has to sound very good in a VERY good room to benefit from reverb on the vocals.
I tend to use as little artificial ambience like reverb and DDL as possible.

Gates... unless the band is loud, loud, loud and I REALLY know the drummer I don't want them.
If I spend a few weeks mixing a band or have LOTS of rehearsal (rare) I can work in gates on the toms.
Even when I was on tour with label bands where the sound systems were generally decent I didn't use gates on kicks or snares.
It just wasn't necessary.

Be careful of effects because I have seen many sound people concentrate on using them instead of ever getting their basic mix set up.
If you are clever and use your ears you can usually make the live sound fit into the room you are in.

You have to listen and find how the band can sit in the acoustic space of the room.
One thing that you absolutely cannot do is force the sound into the room.

I see a lot of people try to make a the p.a. do something in a space that it never will.
This comes in the way of volume or over-use of FX.
ALWAYS BE AWARE OF BEING TOO LOUD!
The louder the mix is.... the better the mix needs to be.
Trust me on this!

[musicguitar]

Hello,

When I had out on tour I will bring several things

Comps/Gates
4-8 Comps - (3 VOX, Bass, K/Sn [on a group])
4-8 Gates - (Kick In, Kick Out, Snare Bottom, Rack, Floor, Floor 2)

Effects
2 Verbs (Drum, VOX)
1 Delay (VOX)
1 Pitchshifter (VOX and Acous) --> Not Necessary

Microphones
Shure Beta 91
Shurt Beta 52/ Audix D6
Audix i5
Shure Beta 57A
(2) AKG 451
Shure SM 81
(3) Sennheiser 906


Everything else I can make do with Venue equipment. Some venues you go to if on a larger scale (HOB) will have these things readily available. However some venues not so readily available. I am always prepared.

Good Luck,
Sean

[nedorama]

Originally Posted by Big_Bang

Rondel,

How are you liking your Frontliner? I have a Channel One in the studio and its my fav workhorse pre!

nedorama,

great post... The band I will be backing up barely uses audible delay or verb, just that slight touch to sparkle things a bit. I know the midiverb is crappy (I recently opened a thread in the low end forum to get some peep's opinion on usability... zero answers ) ... but it was recently given to me and I thought, well... 1-3% mix of something bad is better than 0% Lex.
If it were a wet gig... that would completely change things around !

What about the Furman 1U surge protector? Its best not to have it? What about the risk? Alternatives?

just added some numbers on a piece of paper... I might as well just sell the whole damn rack and buy a proper mixer!

you can get great deals on used gear right now. Lexicon's MPX500 was a flagship FX box in the day, has XLR ins and outs as well as SP/DIF, IEC power plug. New, over $500. Now selling for $125-150 on ebay. Great reverbs and delays, and a great improvement over the midiverb 3. I had a Midiverb II in my rack for a while, and was glad to remove it. If you've got it and can work it without hassles, great - I'd save up though. On the bad stuff (for me a Lexicon MPX200), taking it out sounded much better. Other thought is that a lot of bars, clubs, etc. naturally add reverberation, delay to vocals and other parts in the PA - you may find that you need to back off the effects return dramatically to keep the reverb/delays from turning into sonic mud...

On the surge protector, do some googling. Almost all surge protectors except Surge-X use MOV's or Metal Oxide Varistors. These are good, but as they wear out from surges, can actually add noise back into the line. Plus, if they've been zapped a few times, can wear out.

Voltage regulators take that iffy bar power which can swing all over the place and output a more steady 120 volts. Furman has several of these.

UPS, or uninterruptible power supplies, regenerate power completely (good ones) and produce a clean sine wave of AC power. So not only are you protected from brownouts, your digital gear is less likely to freak out from bad power - neither of which will be helped by a surge protector.

Fine to keep them to turn on stuff in a rack - don't throw them out, but read up on them to know the differences and benefits of all 3 kinds.

and as for doing the numbers, precisely why I sold all my outboard and mixer and upgraded to a used 01v. Setup is a snap, and having parametric EQs on every channel and the main outputs and 4 monitor outputs is a godsend. Once you've had parametric EQs, it's hard to go back...

Good luck!

[Big_Bang]

Well, I can honestly say my Furman is ultra clean. At home, my system got cleaner, yes I swear, cleaner (from tube guitar amps to sizzly mics, monitors, etc). And its a low end version with no power regulation.

The prices of real voltage regulators seem excessive compared to good UPS devices, plus you get the benefit of a couple of minutes to power down.

Anyone recommend a good UPS here in Europe?

[GZsound]

I am surprised that anyone would bring mic preamps. I would imagine that for most live gigs, the preamps in the mixer would be of decent enough quality.

I keep my system very simple. Mixer, dual 31 band EQ for mains, dual 15 band EQ for monitors, FX unit, a feedback destroyer for when I have to use LD mic's on stage and eight channels of compression.

All in a single easy to transport case.

[jude]

Originally Posted by GZsound

I am surprised that anyone would bring mic preamps. I would imagine that for most live gigs, the preamps in the mixer would be of decent enough quality.

same! i never take external pres... unless its to add aditional chanals of AD to a digital mixer. ive mixed on the best, and had great shows. ive mixed on shit gear and had just as good nights. you work a bit harder, but isnt that what you are paid for?

as for external preamps, you would need a really really good rig in a really good room to even hear the difference between a decent desk, and a high end pre.

on top of that, using the house desk and leaving your pres safely at home will stop drunken people ruining them with spilt drinks

[macakinho]

Wow! Really great thread! Lots of really useful information here! thumbsup

I've also just started doing live gigs about 6 months ago and there is still so much I need to learn!

Last tour I did, I always relied on the venue to have all the gear, and if I knew all this before I toured, it would have made my life easier!

Keep it coming!

[hbphotoav]

I do mainly corporate AV and small, acoustic acts locally, with a smattering of R&R/alt country/bluegrass.

My "travel" FOH rack has a Furman AR-15 voltage regulator, a Sabine Intelli-Q (two-rack-space unit with stereo 31-band, stereo C/L, feedback destroyer and programmable digital delay... not an effect, but for timing delay lines), a pair of Peavey Architectural Series stereo 15-bands (quiet, XLR I/O, great for submasters and monitors) and a TC Electronics D Two. If I know I'm doing music, a two-space rack is loaded with a PreSonus ACP88 for 8 ch of C/L, and a four-space rack has a Orban ParaSound stereo parametric and a Rane stereo 15-band with a simple spectrum analyzer. Mixing (and tracking, if necessary) is via Mackie Onyx 1220 or 1640 consoles. If I need more than 16 channels or programmable mutes (usually a theatrical play or two each year), out comes the 32x8x2 Soundcraft Series Two.

I favor Shure Beta 87A for podium mics (looking forward to acquiring an Earthworks FM500 or two, whenever the economy loosens a bit), and SM58s for panels. The RF rack includes four channels of Sennheiser EW 500 and 100 (in "legal" freqs) with an antenna splitter and paddles... four each lavaliere (either Shure/PSC/Senn/DPA), three E6 Countryman, and four Senn EW handheld w/835 caps, with a smaller rack of two EW100s (lavaliere and butt plugs) for backup and breakouts.

Four RCF ART322As (two on 11' Applied Electronics crank stands, two on clutched Ultimate Support 7-footers) and a pair of Mackie 1801 powered subs make up the speaker complement, with four JBL EON15 and four JBL EON10 for wedges and/or smaller/breakout rooms. It all fits, with video screens, projectors, switcher, and a couple of small cameras in a 6x10 trailer, hauled by a F350 CrewCab. Works for me, across all the various gigs that cross my door each year.

[Big_Bang]

Why do you guys use feedback destroyers...?

Like.... ug!

Cheaters !!

Lool...

(kidding, to each, his own)

[GZsound]

Originally Posted by Big_Bang

Why do you guys use feedback destroyers...?

Like.... ug!

Cheaters !!

Lool...

(kidding, to each, his own)

For me, the answer is simple. I run sound at a lot of bluegrass festivals where many groups use a single LD mic.

I have found that by "ringing out" the system with a feedback destroyer prior to using the LD mic, I get substantial headroom and decreased feedback. I save the filter settings as a preset and simply engage the preset whenever I have to set up the LD mic.

It also helps with the monitors if the band using the LD mic insists on also having monitors.

I normally don't use the unit in most other situations.

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by GZsound

For me, the answer is simple. I run sound at a lot of bluegrass festivals where many groups use a single LD mic.

I have found that by "ringing out" the system with a feedback destroyer prior to using the LD mic, I get substantial headroom and decreased feedback. I save the filter settings as a preset and simply engage the preset whenever I have to set up the LD mic.

It also helps with the monitors if the band using the LD mic insists on also having monitors.

I normally don't use the unit in most other situations.

What he said... and I do a ton of corporate with lavs, and roaming presenters who will walk directly in front of a speaker while wearing one. Even after being told.

And... the 1/10th octave slice the Sabine notches is much more precise (and removes less program material) than any 15- or 31-band (1/3 octave) on the planet. All told, I'm usually easily 6-9dB up from the initial howls... and that's a nice bit of headroom.

YM, of course, MV.

HB

[nedorama]

Rane has a good white paper on their site about Constant Q - it shows that with regular graphic EQs, you don't have much precision at all - you're not really notching 2K with one slider, but generally creating a big bell curve. If you think a 31 band is now a butter knife instead of a scalpel, that 15 band graphic EQ is a blunt piece of wood.

Sabine and the other feedback detectors (dbx, and that other one from the B*word people) really do create notch filters with very narrow Q so that it is more surgical and effects much less of the main/monitor mix.

Or you could ring out with a parametric EQ.

Rane sold a line of graphic EQs with their Constant Q, which may be a good used buy for ringing out (sometimes wringing out) feedback.

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by nedorama

Sabine and the other feedback detectors (dbx, and that other one from the B*word people) really do create notch filters with very narrow Q so that it is more surgical and effects much less of the main/monitor mix.

Or you could ring out with a parametric EQ.

R.

What he said. Except... my Intelli-Q (consignment shop for $500) has two channels of TWELVE bands of 1/10th octave filters, which I have set as six "fixed" primary filters, and six "floating" filters. Find me 24 bands of full-range parametric for anywhere near $500... and that doesn't count the two channel programmable delay... the two channels of compression... or the stereo 31-band EQ... or the high-cut/low-cut filters.. or the additional gain control...