Running split to backup

[Nirvana5253]

The goal : to send main stereo pair to my masterlink for backup (have been surprised w/ the quality of sound im getting with it lately- almost prefer it to ITB) without it being affected by me tracking in Logic.

the current setup: running all 4 mics (2 pair - 1 KSM137's and 1 pair little blondies) into my firestudio then taking the SPDIF out to the SPDIF in on the masterlink. Only problem with that is the two systems are linked and the digital out mirrors what I do in Logic - ie. if i solo a track in logic to check something it solos it on the backup- sort of defeating the purpose.


options I've considered: getting a small 4-8 channel mixer (tried a mackie 1202 and had horrible gain staging issues and distortion (although no clipping) on the masterlink even though it technically "worked" to split the signal) and using the main outs/ aux outs to split it that way- adding some "color" to the masterlink side since there are no pre's and providing a minimal-ish signal path to run the split into my firestudio to track. Other option I've considered is getting a pair of splitters and running the iso outs into the masterlink although I'm not sure about the preamp issue. Would love people's thoughts on the best way to go about doing this! Have also considered a preamp with multiple outs although money is definitely a consideration right now (college student) and most of the gigs I get dont pay a whole lot - think of it as a justifiable purchase on a college student budget (aka not much) - not looking to go cheap... think "bang for the buck". Thanks in advance!!

-T

[Tommy-boy]

I've been looking into splitters for the same reasons as you. Here are two splitters you chould check out, one more expensive, and the other less expensive

Radial has an 8-way splitter but it's a bit expensive
Radial Engineering | 8ox-rm-r - Rack-Mount | R800 8003 | B&H

Poco has a 4 channel one that's less expensive
Pro Co Sound | MS-42A - 4-Channel Microphone Splitter | MS42A

I don't have experience with either, but they look like they'd fit the bill. The one concern I have is with audio quality - but I suppose if the direct feed goes to your primary recording device, and the isolated (transformer based) feed goes to the backup - the primary recording should be no different regardless of whether the splitter is in the line. The backup would depend on the tranformer quality.

-Tom

[Nirvana5253]

Have considered those. Wouldnt need 4 tho, just 2 splitters to get my main pair to the masterlink. Any thoughts on the lack of a preamp feeding the masterlink? I could get phantom to the mic's through the direct side of the split so that wouldnt be a problem. Looking to do this as cheaply as possible as soon as possible (gig is this weekend)

-T

[Nirvana5253]

anyone have any other thoughts/ suggestions about how to do this?

[bishopthomas]

The Firestudio has all kinds of outputs, including TRS. Can't you just go from the 1/4" outs to the Masterlink? Maybe I'm missing something here, just seems too simple. Something to check is whether the FireStudio will still pass signal if it loses the Firewire connection. If it does then just split the mics before any preamps, one set goes to the FireStudio, one goes to another set of preamps (the best you can afford at the present) then off to Masterlink.

[Nirvana5253]

The masterlink only has xlr, spdif, and RCA inputs, so to answer your first question about going into the masterlink from the firestudio, yes and no. Yes because I could use an adapter and run it in and no because this is the same issue i ran into with using spdif - its not an independent/ redundant backup because it is connected to the firestudio. I have disconnected the firewire cable on purpose before and the results arent pretty. everything locks up. no audio passes. Currently I'm kind of leaning towards finding a cheap-ish pre that has dual outputs but feel like spending 100 dollars on splitters would affect the signal less (ie. would be better for recording) than spending 250-300 on a pre... thoughts?

[bishopthomas]

That's too bad that it will not function at all as a stand alone unit. I would say that if you're happy with your Firestudio then go with the second option I described above.

[Nirvana5253]

the firestudio does operate as a standalone unit, just not right after disconnecting the firewire cable. It has to be put in that mode on purpose (dumb, i know). My only concern is that if i took a separate stereo out from the firestudio, ran it into a pre and then into the masterlink wont there be gain staging issues? Also, trying to find a suitable pre in this price range that wont destroy classical music is kind of an issue... definite thanks for all of the options so far! keep em comin!

[bishopthomas]

You wouldn't take an output from the FireStudio into another pre. We've already established that if the FS goes down you're screwed. What I am suggesting is this: Mics/Cables to Y split. One side goes to FS and computer, the other side to some type of pre and Masterlink. You'll have two completely different gain structures and sounds, so if one goes down you won't be able to mix and match from the different recorders. But this is the best way to do it on a budget and with the gear you have.

[Nirvana5253]

i guess thats what i get for trying to understand things in the morning. That definitely makes sense. I suppose now it boils down to which pre and any issue of loading problems / connection issues using a y cable on mic level sources. From my understanding, if I were to split a mic level w/ cables, it would connect the two systems, gain changes on one affect gain changes on the other, or am I recalling incorrectly? *off to shop for cheap pre's that get the job done*...

[bishopthomas]

Don't fret too much about using the Y cables. You only need to apply phantom from one source, so pick the "best" unit and go with it. You shouldn't have any issues with the split as long as you're on the same power source (as I'm sure they will be).

[mixedupsteve]

If you use the router in the firestudio console to route the pair to the outputs on the back and save that setup then it should still pass audio if the computer fails or is disconnected. It's never happened to me but thats what the manual says.
I do however prefer a split redundant system. M Audio has a pretty decent 2 channel pre.

[Nirvana5253]

I thought that too, but wanted to check in a oh shit moment what would happen. So I rigged everything up and put a track up in Logic to play back and pulled the fw plug while playing. the meter i had up freaked out in logic- all the bands went sky high - showed clipping on every channel. firestudio lost sync and wouldnt reconnect without quitting logic and opening it back up. needless to say, i love the routing options of the firestudio and the sound you can get @ the price point and w/ 16 channels (digimax fs too) it does more than i probably need; that said, i tape the firewire cable to the desk/floor/anything close that i can when im on location so that it doesnt come unplugged. someone could make a fortune on locking fw cables...

[mixedupsteve]

I see what you mean. I was talking about the analog audio. Analog ins going to the analog outputs. If you play something into the unit via the FW from computer then it will obviously need to be connected.

[Nirvana5253]

sorry i misunderstood, maybe later tonight I'll run a little "experiment" to see what happens... not to hijack my own thread