Preamps for classical string quartet

[Eddie Eagle]

Hi guys,

I'm about to spend some Euros for another preamps for recording classical music, especially chamber strings, grand piano...

I have some KM184, KM 183, U87, Brauner...

Those preamps come to mind:

Millenia
Grace designs
Lake people

Any opinions very much appreciated. I'd like to do some tests before purchase but I would be glad to hear your opinions on what to try.
Which preamps could help to make the highs sound really sweet?
The e-string can sound so harsh. And I like that fat g-sound.

Thanks for help,
Eddie

[fossaree]

Hey Eddie , how's it going ?

Although you did not list it , I strongly recommend you this company :

TRUE Systems

It might be exactly what you're after .

Good luck !

[Daedalus77]

How many channels do you need?

I second the True Systems. And Grace is routinely used in the application you describe.

But there are SO many other options: The LaChapell is glorious. The Gordon, the NPNG, and the Forssell are other great ones.

I've never been a huge fan of Millennia.

[Flying_Dutchman]

Can´t comment on the other than SMP2 vs Millenia
for distant micing applications the SMP-2 is hard to beat
when i had both (i own the smp2 and had some millenia gear at the studio for some days) i only tried at close micing voice, acoustic guitars and guitar amps
well, i didn´t understand what this millenia stuff is all about, i mean it was not really good for my taste, i also tried the voxbox "against" the millenia stuff and the voxbox in 40db gain mode was clearer and more 3D than the millenia

i record metal and rock most of the time and some times i need to record folk instruments, a flute and so on
i got apis, neves the forssell and onyx preamps
it´s strange how detailed the forssell is, that´s the main advantage
if the room is very good, it´s a great preamp and if the song has enough space to hear it, i mean if i have a flute solo against a drummer, keys, heavy guitars, distorted bassguitar, the forsell is cool, too, but if there is only 1 acoutic guitar and a flute the preamp really helps to get a good result imo

[NorseHorse]

Scroll through the Preamps tag in the Remote Forum. You should find all the info you need: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/tags/preamplifier/



PS. A preamp won't change the sound of your strings....

[tmcconnell]

Its true that the pre mentioned are all common for classical music, and certainly will be fine but...

I note that your mics are not particularly warm.... Thus, you might want to consider something that is clean but with a little more warmth esp if you will be using the mics at a distance over a few feet.

For this job, I might suggest John Hardy or Crane Song. Also note that unless you are working with the top class of classical musicians, there will be occasions where the tone of the instruments is perhaps a little screechy... for this, you will want warmer mics. Finally, consider Pre's with a very transparent but variable high pass filter, and very low noise. The AEA RPQ comes to mind (I use it or crane song for strings often and results are fine.) .

In the end, in my experience the classical guys like to hear fast transients, and SDC's communicate those, but, at the same time, SDC's are not famous for warming things up. ted

[fossaree]

actually I do think his mics selection , perfectly match a truesystem precision .

Anyways , as always , try before you buy !


(if you need some samples , let me know)

[Lawsminguez]

From my perspective the thing you get with the usual suspects for classical recording (GML, Millenia, Grace, True etc.) is STELLAR transients... I have a Grace 201 that I've used for a kazillion things (and my primary instrument is violin) and the thing I can say is that it won't flatter you but it will get all the details. Same with GML.

On the detailed but prettier sounding side (and very expensive) consider Lachapell, Crane Song or even D.W. Fearn. The Fearn is truly amazing sounding. I won't bore you with the adjectives but if you're looking for sweetening that might be compatible with your vision of classical, I think it's a contender.

As was mentioned earlier, when you're working in great halls with great players and great instruments the "straight-wire-with-gain" approach of GML and Grace is most often the way to go as it maintains every last iota of detail and beauty. If this is not always the case for you, I'd suggest you don't worry about the "proper" classical way of doing things.

If you like the idea of a super clean pre, perhaps consider a (*gasp*) nice, slightly colored EQ to massage that scratchy, piercing E-string just a little bit. This way you could go clean and pure when things are working and still have some sonic options when you need them.

[cinealta]

Millenia Media HV-3.

You might also try it with B&K 4003, Neumann M50 or Schoeps CmC6 mics. Prism or Lavry converters will work well with this setup.

[NathanEldred]

Buzz Audio
Forsell
APA (Atlas Juggernaut Twin in nickel/nickel & high impedance specifically)
GML
Grace
Millennia
AEA (Wes Dooley's Forsell designed preamp)
Earthworks
Martech MSS-10
Pendulum MDP-1


All of these will be clean enough for chamber/classical/etc

[farhadkd]

Originally Posted by cinealta

Millenia Media HV-3.

You might also try it with B&K 4003, Neumann M50 or Schoeps CmC6 mics. Prism or Lavry converters will work well with this setup.

What he said....or the grace.....

[lakeshorephatty]

Can't resist asking. Why don't some classical folk shoot for a unique thing and grab a less neutral pre? Thats all that existed many years ago and the sounds were of similar greatness.

I bet this was recorded on all redd style tube pre's, not known for ultra clean transients. Sounds great to me.

YouTube - Eleanor Rigby[Strings Only]

[K Livingston]

I've done some amazing classical recordings using the Portico 5012 and two AEA R84's. The Portico is so euphonic but low noise. Great for giving some nice character to acoustic instruments!

[cinealta]

Originally Posted by lakeshorephatty

Can't resist asking. Why don't some classical folk shoot for a unique thing and grab a less neutral pre? Thats all that existed many years ago and the sounds were of similar greatness.

Good question. I've worked in both worlds, rock and classical.

IMO, when one purchases certain classical recordings, you expect to hear the true sound of the authentic period instruments, eg the resonance of gut strings or the timbre of a several hundred year old varnish. These are already acoustically pleasing and do not necessarily need to be augmented in any way. If one were to add the characteristic sound (eg midrange bumps etc) of certain Neve pres, or Neumann mics, these classical instruments could run the risk of having an unpleasant "honking," or "nasal" sound.

This is not the case with rock instruments, which often benefit from the characteristic sound/enhancement of pres/mics that do not always have a ruler-flat frequency response.

[Eddie Eagle]

Originally Posted by Lawsminguez

From my perspective the thing you get with the usual suspects for classical recording (GML, Millenia, Grace, True etc.) is STELLAR transients... I have a Grace 201 that I've used for a kazillion things (and my primary instrument is violin) and the thing I can say is that it won't flatter you but it will get all the details. Same with GML.

On the detailed but prettier sounding side (and very expensive) consider Lachapell, Crane Song or even D.W. Fearn. The Fearn is truly amazing sounding. I won't bore you with the adjectives but if you're looking for sweetening that might be compatible with your vision of classical, I think it's a contender.

Please bore me with the adjectives. How do they sweet things? I need a preamp that is very accurate, fast and clean but not harsh. I worked with the ISA828. I also have some neves and other coloring preamps but I cannot use them on this kind of music...I could but thats not what I want.

Eddie

[Eddie Eagle]

Originally Posted by fossaree

actually I do think his mics selection , perfectly match a truesystem precision .

Anyways , as always , try before you buy !


(if you need some samples , let me know)

Thanks alot. Samples would be great. Would you discribe the truesystem as a "flat, neutral" preamp.

Eddie

[Eddie Eagle]

Originally Posted by Daedalus77

How many channels do you need?

I second the True Systems. And Grace is routinely used in the application you describe.

But there are SO many other options: The LaChapell is glorious. The Gordon, the NPNG, and the Forssell are other great ones.

I've never been a huge fan of Millennia.

Tried a search on NPNG. Is there a website and where can you get them from? What is it people don't like about the millenia? Which model of LaChapell are you talking about? (Not the tube pre, I guess)

Eddie

[Eddie Eagle]

Hi guys,

this is a great forum. Thanks for all your answers and taking the time to write down your experiences. I have to read through all the comments and check your suggestions.

Thanks alot,
Eddie

[ISedlacek]

I second the suggestion for Forssell SMP-2. I have used and tried lot of preamps but SMP2 always amazes me with its natural, organic sound, depth and details ...

[sonare]

If you want neutral you do not want the True P8. I owned two. Now it's Orpheus and Broadhurst Gardens.

Rich

[Petrus]

Add (Prism) Maselec MMA-4XR to your list. Second to none in transparency, adds nothing, takes away nothing. Conveniently 4 channels in one rack space unit.

[pan60]

i have a Forssell SMP-500 here and really really love it!

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by Eddie Eagle

Tried a search on NPNG. Is there a website and where can you get them from?

Eddie

Where are you located? If you are out of the US, you can contact ULF @ Audiodog.se. Audio Dog Pro Audio AB who is an authorized dealer for NPNG products.

As for me; Mercenary Audio is a long time believer in the circuit that is designed and built in Atlanta, GA. We have a Four Channel unit in the studio, and unless someone wants to demo it's righteous performance, it will not ever be leaving our room, as I feel it makes me a better engineer and makes my mikes sound better than I could ever hope for on any source. I think this amp circuit is perhaps the most musical "clean" I have ever heard, and what this thing brings to the table is unfathomable.

Below are some audio examples of the NPNG preamplifier; using a TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik C12 and MTG UM900 in Blumlein technique. "Player Perspective"...

24/96 Acoustic GTR
24/44.1 Acoustic GTR
Individual Files

[wildplum]

Great River MP4 better than Millennia, according to Fletcher. (shameless plug- just happen to have one for sale over in the classified section.)

[Nobilmente]

DAV BG Series, without hesitation.

It's not just a case of being good for strings (which it undoubtledly is) as the case might be for microphones, it's the best all-around microphone preamp you could wish for.

[Audiop]

I assume you mean the best you have tried?



/Peter

[brle]

Yeah, that Dav pre is not bad. Although you´ll probably need more than 2 chanels, here is the somewhat minimalistic sample of piano trio concert last week, done with 2 mics.
Recording chain: 2 MKH40, DAVBG1, Yamaha GO-44 interface , Samplitude.
piano trio.MP3

Sascha

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by brle

Recording chain: 2 MKH40, DAVBG1, Yamaha GO-44 interface , Samplitude.

Working with the DFU setup here...?

[brle]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Working with the DFU setup here...?

Sure, it´s a breeze...

Sascha

[DannyL]

I did not see the ATI 8MX2 listed here.

I like them better than the True mic pre's. Just a matter of taste I suppose, however the, limiters, stackable logic and the on board mixer, allowing you to monitor either mics or tape returns with metering that will show not only level but also dynamics (on solo) make a better overall package when recording. The Trues do have the extra set of line level outputs, but the other facilities of the ATI makes it a better choice for me.

Have a look, you might like what you see. By the way, the ATI 8MX2's power supplies are just about bullet proof.

Danny