Weak Performers

[WVUtubadude]

What do you remote guys do when a recording sucks to the point that it is unusable, not because of anything you did, but because the performer was just terrible?


I had my first experience like that the other night. Do I offer another recording at a discounted rate, or deliver the product as per the original deal?

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by WVUtubadude

What do you remote guys do when a recording sucks to the point that it is unusable, not because of anything you did, but because the performer was just terrible?


I had my first experience like that the other night. Do I offer another recording at a discounted rate, or deliver the product as per the original deal?

Huh? What were you being paid to do? If it was to make a recording of the performer, then just do that, its not your fault they suck

matt

[WVUtubadude]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

If it was to make a recording of the performer, then just do that, its not your fault they suck

matt

Exactly what I was wondering. Thanks

[matt thomas]

although, thinking about it a bit more: Do you think the bad performance was a one off thing? Was there a reason it was so bad? If you are confident that next time will be better, then it might be a good idea to offer a slight discount on a re-record. I would only make it small though, it would make a nice gesture.

If you think they really do suck, and the next time will be the same, then I wouldn't worry about it.

matt

[WVUtubadude]

This guy has already sent a few people my way in the few days after his performance so, out of good business, I am going to offer him a re-record in case the first time was a fluke.

[TRANQUILO]

I had a very similar experience with this matter. The drummer had bad timing. I told the "bandleader" that they need to rehearse more and return when they are ready to do it right. 8hrs to "try" to track a song is non-sense and non-refundable. I always stress this idea on any artist that comes in to track music...REHEARSE, REHEARSE, REHEARSE and get plenty of sleep the night before! I get alot of party animals(rock and rollers) that party the night before a session and it shows up on tape as a "Crap performance". I always tell my clients that there money will go further if they are tight and know what it is they want. Because producing is an extra cost in my opinion. Ive done both engineer and produce or one or the other and its easier with top musicians and songwriters who produce and address there own musical desires. Once in a while Ill help out give some opinions especially if a musician is having dificulty with timing or pitch. Im a musician too, having a set of ears is a gift to be used

[Lenzo]

I had this happen a couple of years ago. The female singer was very weak, unprepared and it was not happening. I just stopped the session and very diplomatically suggested that she go rehearse a bit more and perhaps choose material that was in her range. Luckily, her boyfriend was in the room with us and agreed with me totally. Even more fortunate for me, she never came back.
L.

[Mark Kaufman]

Originally Posted by WVUtubadude

This guy has already sent a few people my way in the few days after his performance so, out of good business, I am going to offer him a re-record in case the first time was a fluke.

It won't be everybody's answer to the original question, but it was your answer...and that makes you one of the good guys. Well played, sir!

[David Spearritt]

Don't worry too much. Certain audiophile recordings companies have whole catalogs full of weak performances.

[valleysound]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

Huh? What were you being paid to do? If it was to make a recording of the performer, then just do that, its not your fault they suck matt

+1
Maybe it will be an eye opener for the performer.

[chris319]

out of good business, I am going to offer him a re-record in case the first time was a fluke.

I hope this re-record will be at the client's expense. No reason you should take it up the shorts because, as has been stated, it's not your fault that they sucked.

[LX3]

I don't know about you, but I find that working for artists with, shall we say, a slight "talent short-fall", always seems to end up less financially-worthwhile than working with pros. Either you have to do three times as much work for your normal fee, or you end up forced to slash your fee to bring things to a conclusion. Or both.

I think it's good karma to help out newer artists occasionally, but whenever I do I try to be prepared for what I might be letting myself in for.

And even then I often get caught out!

I think it's more important than ever to set clear ground-rules for less experienced artists, because they often have very high expectations without necessarily the performance ability to get there, and no real understanding of the amount of work that's going to be involved. As the person providing the service, it's all too easy to get walked all over, and what started out as a favour can end up ruining friendships.

Crumbs, a bit bleak, sorry.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

I find that most classically trained musicians are good at self critique. They know when they have not had a stellar performance. Some pop and rock performers seem to lack this simple self examination skill and sometimes someone close to them has to point out that it was not a good concert.

I do all my recording on location.

I have done my share of make goods but a lot of times the original recording was done in a hall full of people and the make goods are done in an empty hall. Sometimes the performers only want to do the parts they screwed up and have me splice the make goods into the original takes. When you try and explain that this will not work they get upset.They forget about audience noises and the fact that the hall almost always sounds different when it is full. You cannot recreate a live classical performance without an audience and you can't easily rent an audience so I usually try and get the performer to do a complete movement and I can usually fake the rest in post. Sometimes they have a very tricky part that they have problems with almost every time they perform it live so I will suggest that we record this separately and just splice it in.

As to charges. I try and give them a break on the make good recording session but I cannot give my time away. This usually means I have to haul all my equipment in and do a complete setup for the make goods which takes time to setup and tear down as well as the recording time.

I had one client that blew the live recording and was not at all prepared for the make good session. She was a singer and was not up for the concert and the make good session was done after a full day of teaching and her voice was simply not up to the task. We did a second make good recording early in the day and it came off GREAT! She happily paid me for the two sessions and the original recording.

Buy the way just for information... IT IS NOT UP TO YOU TO TELL THE PERFORMER they did a "$hitty" job during the performance. It is up to someone else or the performers themselves to realize their shortcomings and tell you they want to rerecord it. If you tell someone that their performance was not up to par you could lose a client very quickly.

Best of luck!

[LX3]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

I find that most classically trained musicians are good at self critique. They know when they have not had a stellar performance. Some pop and rock performers seem to lack this simple self examination skill

Agreed - rock and pop is where I mainly live primarily, and there are definitely some bands who sound a lot better in their own heads than they do in reality. Naturally, what they're hoping to hear is the sound in their heads... and getting near it takes a lot of work, compared to a band that has their sound under control.

Although bizarrely, I do occasionally encounter the other end of the spectrum... where the artist plays at the very top level and sets insanely high standards for themselves. Once the red light goes on, every note goes under the microscope, and they don't feel that anything they played was good enough (even though the audience is totally blown away.)

That's the danger with improvisational musical forms. No matter how well you play, there's always a theoretically "better" performance to be had, and understandably it's that elusive better performance that the artist wants to get on tape. If the performer is self-producing and can't draw a line somewhere you're on a hiding to nothing.

As long as you're being paid by the hour of course, it's not a problem.

[valleysound]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

Buy the way just for information IT IS NOT UP TO YOU TO TELL THE PERFORMER they did a "$hitty" job during the performance it is up to someone else or the performers themselves to realize their shortcomings and tell you they want to rerecord it. If you tell someone that their performance was not up to par you could lose a client very quickly.

Best of luck!

I totally agree. I have learned that the best opinion is none! When forced into a situation like this, I tell the performer to take it home for a few days and listen to it themselves, effectively trying to avoid giving my opinion.

[LX3]

Originally Posted by valleysound

I totally agree. I have learned that the best opinion is none!

Totally. One of the distinctions between being an engineer, and being a producer. In fact, it's excellent advice for almost any situation where you're working for someone else. Don't offer an opinion (especially not a negative one) unless you are required to do so.

Even a producer, whose whole job is to HAVE an opinion, needs to err very heavily on the side of diplomacy. It's very hard to get the best out of an artist when the artist thinks you hate their playing.

[boojum]

Maybe this is the problem:

[rumleymusic]

I totally agree. I have learned that the best opinion is none!

Yep, just smile, bear it, and use phrases like "so were you happy with that take?", or "should we keep that one?". Then take the money and drink until you forgot you even recorded him.

[7rojo7]

This is physically dangerous. If I had to drink to forget all the bad perfomances I've heard; I'd never finish. It's already bad enough

[WVUtubadude]

I gave the guy another shot, and the second take turned out really well. I didn't even charge him because he has referenced so many of his friends to me.

[Remoteness]

The final decision one what you should do is completely up to you.
You know best and how it will affect your future business.

IMO, that was a very kind thing to do.
I believe you did the right thing.
More power to you for looking beyond the economics of it all.

Originally Posted by WVUtubadude

I gave the guy another shot, and the second take turned out really well. I didn't even charge him because he has referenced so many of his friends to me.