Hardware Reverb As A DAW Plug-in. What about Bricasti M7?

[88man]

Is there a high end hardware reverb that can be used as a high end convolution reverb plug-in for DAW (Wavelab, LogicPro)?

How can one use Bricasti M7 as a software plug-in for the mastering stage?

[jude]

the lexicon MX series and new PCMs can be used as plugins, not sure bout the M7 tho

[jnorman]

yes, Acousticas sampled the bricasti M7 and made the IRs available for free. there are also free IRs available for the lex 480L and 960, the TC6000, EMT 240, quantec and others. you can start looking at the kvr website. you can hear samples from several of those on my recent thread "how much reverb?"

[aracu]

"Is there a high end hardware reverb that can be used as a high end convolution reverb plug-in for DAW (Wavelab, LogicPro)?

How can on use the benefits of Bricasti M7 be used as a plug-in for the mastering stage of a recording?"

It's not clear if are asking about using the hardware Bricasti M7 as a digital insert into your DAW, or a software version of it. If you mean using the hardware as a digital insert into the DAW so that you can work with it in a similar way as a software plugin, yes, it works with some programs such as Sonar it's an efficient way to use it. The main differences with that approach and using a software reverb is 1. higher audio quality 2. the processing is slower because it needs to be processed in real time.

[88man]

Thank you very much jnorman, aracu, and jude. Sorry, I fixed the typo on the opening thread. The real question is:

How can one use Bricasti M7 as a software plug-in into my DAW for the mastering stage?... I have Wavelab5, LogicPro7, Sonar6, Audition3.

[mahasandi]

Just to be clear the m7 has no plug-in, its only hardware.
That said if you have aes/ebu in/outs on you interface just route your audio in and out of the bricasti, print the reverb if you like, and do it again etc

you can also send midi sysex info( program change state)
i think, but i have not done this ......

[aracu]

Yes, you need to have digital ins and outs on your computer audio interface to connect it in and out. From there the Sonar help files explain how to configure a hardware effects device in Sonar. Then record a reverb track to a wav file in real time, then import the reverb track back to mix it with the original dry track. If you want you can combine and mix various different reverb tracks.

[Froombosch]

Midi can be used to control hardwareunits inside an DAW. Recall options are available that way. Not easy to implement, but when you have it working its is a big timesaver.

Do not forget the latency you have with external effects. Also some hardware effects really have latency of their own.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by jude

the lexicon MX series and new PCMs can be used as plugins, not sure bout the M7 tho

No, the Lexicon MX series cannot be used as plugins-though the marketing department at Lexicon has certainly intended for us to think so.

The only thing that happens when an MX unit is connected via USB to a computer is that the parameters of the reverb/effects can be controlled by the computer. And even in that regard, there are some problems with zipper noise, etc., when parameters are shifted.

There is no audio information being sent to or from the MX units by the USB connection. The only audio path to and from the MX unit is via the analogue XLR/TRS or by the SPDIF cable, and the clocks run only at 44.1 and 48k.

I'm surprised Lexicon has not received complaints and bad press over this clearly misleading information regarding the MX series. They deserve it.

OTH, if this signal flow sounds like a plugin to you-then, well, everyone is happy.

[jude]

Originally Posted by JEGG

No, the Lexicon MX series cannot be used as plugins-though the marketing department at Lexicon has certainly intended for us to think so.

The only thing that happens when an MX unit is connected via USB to a computer is that the parameters of the reverb/effects can be controlled by the computer. And even in that regard, there are some problems with zipper noise, etc., when parameters are shifted.

There is no audio information being sent to or from the MX units by the USB connection. The only audio path to and from the MX unit is via the analogue XLR/TRS or by the SPDIF cable, and the clocks run only at 44.1 and 48k.

I'm surprised Lexicon has not received complaints and bad press over this clearly misleading information regarding the MX series. They deserve it.

OTH, if this signal flow sounds like a plugin to you-then, well, everyone is happy.

actually, i'll disagree. i run the VST plugin for my mx2oo in cubase 5 with no worries. sure it does not transmit audio via USB. however since i control mine over MIDI and use it as 2 send effect on my console it not a problem.

as per your zipper noise issue, if you listen closely it only happens when tweeking delay times (and pre delay on reverbs) something that happens on almost all digital hardware delays. and no audio is being sent over USB? damn, id never have worked that out from reading the user manual or many of the reviews online. you really are a life saver

[88man]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. Too bad Bricasti doesn't have the versatility and compatibility to use with other major DAW software through FW, as more people would benefit using the capabilities of the M7 in a mastering application as opposed to just a live-friendly HW device. However, I will look into the application with Sonar and try to become more familiar with its applications.

[haikusoftruth]

Originally Posted by 88man

Thanks everyone for the great advice. Too bad Bricasti doesn't have the versatility and compatibility to use with other major DAW software through FW, as more people would benefit using the capabilities of the M7 in a mastering application as opposed to just a live-friendly HW device.

That doesn't even make sense...

With AES and sysex, it can do anything a plug in can do, in the digital realm with automation... Though not sure how extensive the sysex midi stuff will be, but I assume it will be standard.

ANY midi sysex capable gear with digital outs can be used exactly as you describe... ANY of it. Add midnam and middev files and you can have the patches show up in MOST daw applications... So patch names, automation and digital I/O- whats the question again?

Automation via midi has been around a VERY long time. But the marketing Dept for Lexicon has spun plug in avaliability/ease to a whole new level. But its no different than a slicker interface that pops up as a plug in. And the firewire doesn't work 100%- ie the PCM92...

I own the M7 and master with it- V2 should solve the midi automation issue unless they dont assign CCs for everything. Which BTW- who cares... I usually dont automate the verb parameters realtime anyway, ESPECIALLY mastering.

Maybe I dont understand your question...???

[mahasandi]

Originally Posted by 88man

Thanks everyone for the great advice. Too bad Bricasti doesn't have the versatility and compatibility to use with other major DAW software through FW, as more people would benefit using the capabilities of the M7 in a mastering application as opposed to just a live-friendly HW device. However, I will look into the application with Sonar and try to become more familiar with its applications.

Live friendly...... What are you talking about. How exactly are you having trouble integrating an m7 ? I just don't get any substance from what your saying
no offense, I'm just not sure what the qualm is?

Oh well there is another reverb that has FireWire but it's not as good......

[tomdarude]

You simply dedicate 2 Outputs and 2 Inputs from and back to your DAW on your soundcard and plug the M7 right in!
Set this I/O up on an AUX bus in the DAW .....done.

Or simply use it on an aux with an analog console, even better!!

there´s no need for a firewire-implementation with a stereo-only device, it could stop working with every DAW or OS "update"..and how much trouble is it to use a pair of analog or AES/EBU I/O for a worldclass reverb, that compares to no other box out there.




...and why the hell do you need a reverb for mastering???
the track would have to be sincerely lacking to start with, me thinks....

[88man]

After EQ, I usually like to add a slight amount of hall reverb to my 2-channel piano recordings. That's about it, really.

Before your responses, it seemed to me that the M7 was more intuitive in a live situation, as a pass through device, as opposed to seamlessly integrating into a DAW as a plug-in. I am asking these questions because, I'd like to know for sure how to implement the M7 before spending $3700 the unit.

I've never implemented an external unit into my DAW. So, AES/sysex is new for me. The 2 systems I have are: MacPro 8-core, LogicPro7, and Apogee Ensemble; and on PC I have Wavelab, Sonar 6.

I see that there's more than one way to do this, so I'll have to fully understand the choices you've all given me...

Thanks guys!

[aracu]

You can also go in and out via spdif, which can connect with adapters to the Bricasti aes ins and outs. It'a a little buggy but works.

[mahasandi]

88~

I think just a pass thru after eq is a very simple setup with the bricasti.
I have tried direct aes connections, work great; spdif it depends , some devices won't work some will, but with the proper xformer/adapter it works fine.

I think if you do demo it on your piano recordings, you'll find a way to make your workflow include it. Its that good.

As to the sysex midi cc for recalling presets etc. I believe this can be done.
does anyone know?

Or is it a coming V2 capability?

Originally Posted by Casey

While it is not quite plugin recall, V2 allows the complete M7 system state to be easily saved into your DAW as a midi sysex string and subsequently restored. It just takes one press of the store button on the front panel to save the state to the DAW.

The state includes all current edits and even the state of the front panel. For example, if you were in the middle of adjusting the predelay when you pressed the store button, when you restore the state, it will recall your predelay edit and put you right in the predelay edit front panel mode, just where you left it.



-Casey

[88man]

I may have to go with AES/spdif connectors to my Apogee Ensemble in order to keep things digital. I am going to look into this further... Thanks guys!

[The MPCist]

Not sure what the OP meant but I'm using my two TC6000's hooked up to a digital 192 via AES/EBU directly into Pro Tools as Inserts.

The advantage for me is that I don't use up any CPU/DSP for the effects and have some more room to use CLA, PuigTec's, API/SSL/Neve's....