No love for Earthworks?

[bengl3rt]

I am thinking about what my next upgrade to my remote rig is in terms of mics, and I have to say the Earthworks omnis are looking appealing to me. However, whenever I've heard good things about Earthworks mics, it's been from people who did more studio-style "production" recording. They seem to like them for acoustic guitar and drums and things.

However around here when people list their rigs and stuff, I see Schoeps and DPA and Oktava and the like, but rarely any Earthworks. Is there some reason they aren't appropriate for the live/acoustic application that we all love so dearly? Is my money better spent on one of the more "known" (in terms of what we do) brands?

[joelpatterson]

I have a pair of QTC-30's and use them all the time, every time for live concert stuff. They're fantastic and if they have any flaw it's that they will re-create explicitly, exactly what you're hearing.

My understanding is that the company was founded, and the original revolutionary design created by, a genius who had incredible insights into how microphones do what they do, and specifically his idea was to craft a mic where its diaphragm returned to its resting point instantaneously, so there's no smearing of sound at all, in the slightest, nadia nunca.

However-- I'd had a few conversations with the people running the place now... suffice it to say, in a nutshell:

[bengl3rt]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

My understanding is that the company was founded, and the original revolutionary design created by, a genius who had incredible insights into how microphones do what they do, and specifically his idea was to craft a mic where its diaphragm returned to its resting point instantaneously, so there's no smearing of sound at all, in the slightest, nadia nunca.

However-- I'd had a few conversations with the people running the place now... suffice it to say, in a nutshell:

Hmm, similar to the Monster cable story perhaps?

[MichaelPatrick]

I've used a matched pair of QTC-40s for years now and love em. They are worthy mics for all but the quietest sources. They are my favorite mic under a closed piano lid.

[Audiop]

I use a pair of QTC1 alongside Sennheiser MKH8000's for classical and opera and I love them.

Sometimes the noise is a problem, sometimes not.

They are possibly some of the most accurate omnis around and the only weakness is the noise.


/Peter

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

My understanding is that the company was founded, and the original revolutionary design created by, a genius who had incredible insights into how microphones do what they do, and specifically his idea was to craft a mic where its diaphragm returned to its resting point instantaneously, so there's no smearing of sound at all, in the slightest, nadia nunca.

No rocket surgery really. Flat response in the frequency domain translates to good performance in the time domain. The small capsule makes the energy response better than what can be had with a bigger omni capsule.

What he achieved with the ZDT amps is impressing though to me and as far as I understand he had his own tricks regarding low noise designs.


/Peter

[Msilver84]

I have not used them personally, but I have heard some great things. Trying to find some recordings to take a listen.

[Jim vanBergen]

They are wonderful tools, incredibly accurate. The capsule design is amazing- David Blackmer came up with some amazing stuff in his lifetime.

They are every bit as accurate as Schoeps/DPA/Sennheiser. Amazing at close range, some of my favorite mics in general and in the same league as the others. I have six matched pairs (used to be 8, the economy is killing me) and I use Earthworks on loads of live orchestra and broadcast recordings.

They are definitely worth checking out and comparing when you are looking to buy.
We all have our favorites, but the mic is only one part of the equation in the recording.
I will second the love for the ZDT preamp, I have had several classical producing clients A/B them against Millenia and not hear a difference, which I think is quite a rave in itself.

[d1rtynyc]

Earthworks is my go to choice for choirs and stage performances.
The cardioids have a really nice wide pattern that pick up so much more area.

I also like them for drums in the 3 mic set-up.

I have not used them for too much instrumental concert stuff, but I am sure the are excellent as well.

[piano]

They hail from NH - my home state. Live Free or Die.

They are made HERE in the USA. I think that is awesome!

I tried some of the TC30 (I believe) years ago before they developed the new Quite Time Coherent - QTC 50 microphones. Which are superior in many ways over the TC30 - more quiet.

At the time, I chose, the 4003 +130 V DPA's over the older TC30's Earthworks due to the low level noise I heard coming from the mics in soft passages. The DPA's were far more expensive - so not a fair fight.

I'd like to try the QTC 50's again.

[Denny McNerney]

the QTC 50s are incredible.

in every new application i try them on, i get jaw dropping responses from everyone who hears them.

[Corran]

Another happy EW user here. I had 3 QTC-1's and 2 SR-77's but I've since sold all but a pair of QTC-1's. That doesn't sound like an endorsement but it was just simply cleaning up. I have two pairs of Schoeps now and I can't justify all the mics.

Joel is right, they are dead accurate and can therefore be too good for the room/music. I have used Schoeps in identical positions and they sound slightly better because they are just ever so slightly sweeter sounding. The EW picked up everything, including poor room sound. I think in really nice halls a pair of EW would be every bit as good as anything else.

Other than that the self-noise is definitely higher than other mics, and therefore I might pick up something else if recording super-quiet music.

Anyway, I definitely will be keeping my pair forever. Especially because they are some kind of custom black color that I've never seen elsewhere.

I've posted a few samples of recordings done with them around here, let me know if you want me to dig them out, or find them yourself.

[Jim vanBergen]

Agreed, I worked with them on the powder coating (I tried a few different versions and gave them my opinion) and I'm really happy with the results. They are PERFECT for tv production: neutral, accurate, and invisible.

JvB

Originally Posted by Corran

Anyway, I definitely will be keeping my pair forever. Especially because they are some kind of custom black color that I've never seen elsewhere.

[Tibbon]

Jim- was it you that let me borrow their TC-30's a few years ago to try out?

Those thing are absolutely amazing. As odd as it will sound, I LOVE them on electric guitar amp. What comes out of your speakers upon repro is exactly what you heard when you were standing at that point in the room. I've never been able to mic a guitar amp from 6 ft away and have it sound so amazing before. Just move your hear around in the room until it sounds good and then throw a mic there. Wow.

I still want to get a pair of these.

[Denny McNerney]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

As odd as it will sound, I LOVE them on electric guitar amp.

that's an application i haven't tried yet, but will, now.

i agree... w/ a good mic pre, they are like an open window, sonically.

[bishopthomas]

That was my go to mic for electric guitar, exactly for the reasons you stated. I had a pair of the SR69 I used mainly for live work and a little recording. It had the scew on windscreen and was marketed for live vox, but I found it too odd to give to singers to hold. I usually kept the windscreens off and used them as stereo ambient or audience mics, electric or acoustic guitar (excellent on nylon string), percussion (used it on snare with drummers I trusted)... Basically anything that made a pleasing sound I put an SR69 on it and reproduced that sound exactly.

[ABBA]

Wonderful mics.
Amazing preamps! Way better than Millennia.

[Bob Amirian]

Originally Posted by ABBA

Wonderful mics.
Amazing preamps! Way better than Millennia.

Wow, what a statement

"Beemer is way better than Audi" here again?

Could you describe precisely in what way and in which applications they're "way better" than Millennia HV-3D?

[SoundWeavers]

my Earthworks mics are "old" - a stereo pair of TC20, but still prefer them on ensemble recording sessions. very high resolution capture of the sound.

[jslevin]

Earthworks sits in the middle in some ways and pays a price for that. The high-end snobs -- who must have the most expensive thing regardless of whether they can hear a difference -- are going to go for Schoeps. The people looking for a bargain will talk about Oktava and/or various mods.

All Earthworks does is provide outstanding clarity and accuracy, at a price that while not cheap is very reasonable. There is no common type of fanatic or narcissist on GearSlutz who will totally go nuts over this. They are only appealing to working engineers with good ears and good sense -- who want something excellent, who can tell the difference, and who are willing to spend good money but don't have an unlimited budget.

In sum, if you're looking for great mics and great value, Earthworks will not disappoint.

JSL

[joelpatterson]

A "common narcissist".... well, I'm certainly not one of those...

[resound]

Originally Posted by jslevin

Earthworks sits in the middle in some ways and pays a price for that. The high-end snobs -- who must have the most expensive thing regardless of whether they can hear a difference -- are going to go for Schoeps.

I don't think that's fair. I had a pair of EW. As others have cited, their sound inside or right above the soundboard of piano is gorgeous. However, they were just too noisy *for me* as general purpose omnis. So off they went. I would have been much happier to keep them, but I just could not give them enough use.

Whether for sound or specs, some of the more expensive mics out there bring something different to the game. Not always better, but different; when noise is an issue, that difference can be objectively more desirable.

Some people around here who may appear to be the biggest snobs also speak very highly of some very reasonably priced gear. It's performance for the task at hand, not price, that matters in the end.

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by jslevin

Earthworks sits in the middle in some ways and pays a price for that. The high-end snobs -- who must have the most expensive thing regardless of whether they can hear a difference -- are going to go for Schoeps. The people looking for a bargain will talk about Oktava and/or various mods.

All Earthworks does is provide outstanding clarity and accuracy, at a price that while not cheap is very reasonable. There is no common type of fanatic or narcissist on GearSlutz who will totally go nuts over this. They are only appealing to working engineers with good ears and good sense -- who want something excellent, who can tell the difference, and who are willing to spend good money but don't have an unlimited budget.

In sum, if you're looking for great mics and great value, Earthworks will not disappoint.

JSL

I'd put EW up against more expensive mics any day of the week. Top notch competitors in the mic game regardless of price.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by resound

I don't think that's fair. I had a pair of EW. As others have cited, their sound inside or right above the soundboard of piano is gorgeous. However, they were just too noisy *for me* as general purpose omnis. So off they went. I would have been much happier to keep them, but I just could not give them enough use.

I don't see how this negates anything I wrote, which was perfectly fair by the way.

I think all but a handful of those who were not aware of the price difference and noise specs would never detect the difference with their own ears at normal monitoring levels. (I can't prove that, of course, but what I wouldn't give for someone to do a blind test.) For studio applications and all but the most demanding distant-mic live applications, there's nothing wrong with the self-noise of these mics. I'm sorry, but there just isn't.

Again, there is a small handful of people doing work where it might really matter -- slightly. The bulk of complaints aren't from those people, however, but rather from those who obsess over a spec they can't hear. (In fairness, they probably can't hear the excellent frequency response either.)

I would not presume to say which group you fall into, because I don't know.

Some people around here who may appear to be the biggest snobs also speak very highly of some very reasonably priced gear. It's performance for the task at hand, not price, that matters in the end.

Yes, some -- but not most. Most people can't hear fine differences, don't understand the differences that they can discern, and rationalize all the time. Anyone with knowledge and ears who reads GearSlutz regularly should find this to be obvious.

JSL

[Storyville]

I gotta contend on the above as well. QTCs give me the best sound inside piano, excellent on an open sounding acoustic guitar, great on drum overheads, and drum room captures, fantastic for brass as long as it's not placed directly in front of the bell's mouth, very nice as overheads for string ensemble work - I don't see how they aren't a top notch choice for general purpose omnis.

[resound]

What I didn't find fair was the implicit accusation of economic elitism. It can be read as a bit of an insult to someone who may choose Schoeps, etc..

As for myself, the audible noise was why I jettisoned the mics. The noise was audible in every situation I put them in. A lot of modern, "new music" (or however you wish to describe contemporary, nonpop acoustic classical music) has very extreme dynamics. These mics just did not handle very quiet passages transparently enough. If they did, I would gladly have kept them.

[sonicdefault]

I owned QTC1s for about 10 years. I sold them for a good price... but only because I'm planning to buy QTC50s

Self noise is an issue, and these mics will make a bad source sound extra-bad. but when you get it right... it's brilliant.


-SD

[jslevin]

It can be read as a bit of an insult to someone who may choose Schoeps, etc..

It can be read that way, because it's meant to be read that way. (Of course, those who really can tell the difference and who are not insecure in that fact wouldn't care what I was saying anyway.)

Look, it's a fact that a huge amount of pro audio gear is now not only bought by financially comfortable hobbyists who can't tell the difference, but many products are actually designed for and marketed specifically to that market. If this fact changed tomorrow, certain manufacturers and dealers would go out of business within a month. Call it the "bling market" ... trust fund kids, drug money, people who made a lot of money quickly in some other field ...

Of course many very expensive products are outstanding, and a few of them are actually worth the money. I may say it's one set of stuff, you might say it's a different set. That doesn't change the fact that most of it is not worth the money, and most of the customers can't tell if any of it is worth it or not.

JSL

[Johns]

I happily use my Schoeps and TC30ks side by side with no problems. The 30s are noisy in quite passages, but I know that and don't use them in these situations. Very natural sounding mic.

[George Necola]

the earthworks with the phillips capsules have always been too noisy for my applications (heavy compression)