No love for Earthworks?

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by ABBA

For your information - We still dress that way in Sweden...

Cool, I think the girls outfits rock! Seriously

[Igor2012]

Originally Posted by Denny McNerney

at the risk of being redundant, here's an audio example of the quietest section of a performance of acoustic guitar. i've posted this before. this is the most delicate section i could find.

One would have to be incurably anal to find the amount of hiss in that clip to be objectionable. Even through headphones with the gain maxed out, I didn't find the noise distracting or obtrusive. Some folks must have such acute hearing that they rush to cover their ears when a gnat farts from 20 feet away.

Every recording I've heard leads me to believe that the Earthworks are fantastic-sounding mics. If I had the money, I'd consider getting a pair.

[Rolo 46]

Self noise can be obvious on cans
Less so on midfield speakers
I could accept tape noise but not mic noise
Now transport noise has gone mic noise does irritate
Grain on my mono stills was arty...
WTF ?

[Jim Williams]

Excessive self noise, not acceptible in a 24 bit world. Many of my omni mics are less than 5 db self noise. I don't print hiss here.

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Many of my omni mics are less than 5 db self noise.

The quietest true omni (pressure) microphone in my knowledge is the DPA 4041-S, the self-noise level of which is 7 dB SPL A-weighted.

[PoxyMusic]

Originally Posted by Igor2012

One would have to be incurably anal to find the amount of hiss in that clip to be objectionable.

I do sound design for video games and film, and have quite a few mics including a pair of QTC40s. They do sound wonderful, but I really can't use them for ambience recordings that are somewhat quiet...and I am by no means anal. When I compare them to my 8040s the difference is remarkable. They're great mics, but noisy. It's a sad fact.

I can't speak for music recordists, but I could imagine them being unusable for music with quiet passages.

[DannyL]

I had a pair of the QTC 30's. I was not entranced by them. I tried them in a number of situations and decided for the work that I do, they were not the best option. I prefer my Schoeps CK4's in an ORTF configuration for most of my musical work. I have a pair of Josephson C42's for live sports events.

However: I recently had to revisit a project I did where I had mounted the pair of QTC 30's about 2 meters apart for ambiance in a New York loft space - live recording, no audience. Part of the project was a Baroque trio - Viola de gamba, Violin w/ gut strings and wooden flute. I had a listen to the pair and realized that the image captured by this AB configuration was exactly what the trio needed. The remix was a marked improvement over the original.

Regards;
Danny

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Excessive self noise, not acceptible in a 24 bit world. Many of my omni mics are less than 5 db self noise. I don't print hiss here.

Begging your pardon, Jim, but we certainly do not live in a 24-bit world. Our equipment processes 24-bit audio, but none of us record with a system that has 144 dB of headroom, or in a physical space that's even close to that. Few if any recordings achieve even 20 bits of signal above noise.

So in fact, you print hiss or something like it all the time.

JSL

[Audiop]

Sure, but still the self noise from EW omnis will be the dominating noise in most controlled situations and often audible. There are other microphones with less noise which can give you an audibly noise free recording when EW fail to do so.


/Peter

[d_fu]

I tried using an SR-78 hypercardioid (later renamed to SR30 HC) as a spot mic on a harpsichord, and the noise was unbearable. I eventually sold it to someone who places it in front of a guitar amp...

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by jslevin

Begging your pardon, Jim, but we certainly do not live in a 24-bit world. Our equipment processes 24-bit audio, but none of us record with a system that has 144 dB of headroom, or in a physical space that's even close to that. Few if any recordings achieve even 20 bits of signal above noise.

So in fact, you print hiss or something like it all the time.

JSL

No I don't. The mic preamps are -133 db EIN at 50 ohms, even less at 20 ohms, the impedance of several of my mics. I hear air noise in the room, not hiss. The electronics' noise has been eliminated here. Using a 22 db self noise Earthworks mic would change that.

[Petrus]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

No I don't. The mic preamps are -133 db EIN at 50 ohms, even less at 20 ohms, the impedance of several of my mics.

So which converters you use, what is the dynamic range of those?

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by Petrus

So which converters you use, what is the dynamic range of those?

Not as good, nor will they be for some time... the DAC's are still better.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

No I don't. The mic preamps are -133 db EIN at 50 ohms, even less at 20 ohms, the impedance of several of my mics. I hear air noise in the room, not hiss. The electronics' noise has been eliminated here. Using a 22 db self noise Earthworks mic would change that.

As Petrus notes, the -133 of the preamps isn't quite as meaningful when there are no ADC (to my knowledge) that can match it. Let alone tape!

More significant, the fact that YOU have that environment means nothing to the average person seeking good advice on GearSlutz. The typical project studio, even the typical commercial studio, does not have a noise level that low, and I'm going to speculate that NO location recording sites have a noise level that low.

JSL

[Audiop]

A modern AD has much lower noise than the best mic-preamps and the best mic-preamps has lower noise in a typical setting than for example EW omnis.

I have a pair of QTC1 (and also QTC50) which i have used for ten years or so and most of the times the noise from these mic's is audible and disturbing. I have used them in two home studios (one in an apartment and one in a house) and on location several times.

I use them for recording sometimes but mostly I use them for measurements since I have a bunch of MKH's which can give basically the same quality but without noise. Well, the MKH8040 (at 13dBA self noise) can be audible sometimes but I can't recall having ever heard the noise from MKH8020 at normal gain.

MKH8020=10dBA
MKH8040=13dBA
QTC=22dBA


/Peter

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by Audiop

A modern AD has much lower noise than the best mic-preamps

Which one ?
120 dB dynamic range unweighted is a very good performance for an AD. Assuming 0 dBFS = 18 dBu, it means than the noise floor is about -102 dBu. The preamp noise at the preamp output is EIN + gain, which may be lower than -102 dB, depending on the gain. Anyway 'much lower' in your statement seems exaggerated.

[Corran]

I still contend that most people who have issues with noise from EW mics are not getting full 48v, 10mA phantom power from their preamps. Using a dedicated PP box always seemed to improve the noise performance for me.

Furthermore, the noise that was present was rather receptive to being removed with one of the programs that analyzes and reduces noise, such as Reaper's ReaFir.

Just like any other mic they are a tool and you should use them in the proper situations. Of course for drum miking all of this is a non-issue, and if you've never tried a pair of QTC omni mics on overhead and a pair of SR cardioid mics on snare/bass in a good room or isolation booth...you're missing out on one of the best full kit sounds you'll ever hear!

[AKCSTUDIO]

Originally Posted by Corran

I still contend that most people who have issues with noise from EW mics are not getting full 48v, 10mA phantom power from their preamps. Using a dedicated PP box always seemed to improve the noise performance for me.

Furthermore, the noise that was present was rather receptive to being removed with one of the programs that analyzes and reduces noise, such as Reaper's ReaFir.

Just like any other mic they are a tool and you should use them in the proper situations. Of course for drum miking all of this is a non-issue, and if you've never tried a pair of QTC omni mics on overhead and a pair of SR cardioid mics on snare/bass in a good room or isolation booth...you're missing out on one of the best full kit sounds you'll ever hear!

Love my TC30's through API on my drum overheads.