bargain mics for orchesta

[analogica]

Hi there,

Im looking for a some mics to record an orchesta, in decca 3 or XY...

I was looking for schoeps, but is really expesive, so im looking for some small brothers...something modded maybe, a cheaper mics with almost similar results.

Akgs???....oktavas??? I dunno.

And what about ribbons, are they ok for this purpose or they color too much.

Is the first im doing this...so im lost

Is there a pencil mic, which works ina studio and stage????

Thanks for your help guys

[taturana]

oktavas are nice for that application, especially modified ones... check oktavamod.com for the modded ones sold by michael joly... i have used them a few times and they are stunning at that price range...

[Jungle Jazz]

Checking over at the Remote Possibilities forum will probably yield some productive answers to our question.

For stereo setups, you could try:

Beyer MC930
Shure KSM141 or KSM137
AKG C460 or C480

For stereo recording, an ORTF setup might work better than XY.

[analogica]

thanks guys, I was considering the peluso cemc6 pair...but it seems so similar than oktavas,

I was wondering a decca 3 with XY in the middle....the orchesta should be around 45 musicians

[desotoslo]

Originally Posted by Jungle Jazz

Checking over at the Remote Possibilities forum will probably yield some productive answers to our question.

For stereo setups, you could try:

Beyer MC930
Shure KSM141 or KSM137
AKG C460 or C480

For stereo recording, an ORTF setup might work better than XY.

Yup.

[studiostuff]

You may have a bit more luck finding info about a Decca "Tree" mic array when you search.

IMHO, you will certainly need a bunch of mics to record a group that large. While the Decca Tree array or an X-Y or ORTF pair may get you a nice POV from the conductor's podium, you will certainly want some spot mics here and there... unless you feel confident you will catch it all with the previously mentioned techniques.

What are you planning to do with the recording... Film score...?

I just did the Doresy mod to a pair of Oktava MK-219s I got for next to nothing. They sound like more expensive mics to me and may work for you, depending on what you decide to do.

I can't imagine recording an orchestra without spot mics all over the place. Solo passages, Woods, FHs, Pno, Harp, misc. perc.... and more. With that many folks gathered, it's a shame to not get as much as possible for max flexibility in the mix.

I guess it depends on the music and the purpose.

YMMV

[Surbitone]

Can see the benefits of spot mics, but with a great orchestra in a great hall, it seems a bit of a sin to be putting spot mics up. Depends on the scenario though I guess.

ORTF would be my first port of call, or spaced omnis.

[big country]

Core Sound — Jecklin Disk and Schneider Disk microphone mounts

that and pair of SDC

if you really kick ass at mic placement and room dimensions I go with the Decca tree

[studiostuff]

Originally Posted by Surbitone

Can see the benefits of spot mics, but with a great orchestra in a great hall, it seems a bit of a sin to be putting spot mics up. Depends on the scenario though I guess.

ORTF would be my first port of call, or spaced omnis.

I didn't say he had to use the spot mics in the mix... and if I didn't say so I meant that the spots would be available to augment the main conductor POV mics at the mix.

Much better to have and not need...

Sounds a bit dangerous to be recording a 45 piece group and not have a bit more solid experience to help with the recording than it seems to me the OP may have. I say that with no intended offense meant to the original poster.

Gearslutz advice is not going to be enough when the baton comes down.

[Surbitone]

Originally Posted by studiostuff

I didn't say he had to use the spot mics in the mix... and if I didn't say so I meant that the spots would be available to augment the main conductor POV mics at the mix.

Much better to have and not need...

Sounds a bit dangerous to be recording a 45 piece group and not have a bit more solid experience to help with the recording than it seems to me the OP may have. I say that with no intended offense meant to the original poster.

Gearslutz advice is not going to be enough when the baton comes down.

[analogica]

Hi guys,

thanks for your answers....im just getting crazy looking for the stuff and the money,

a silly one: is it OK to record in a studio with a senheiser mkh 416???

I think i ve never saw a ortf, xy.....with a shotgun but as I said im still lost e

thanks indeed for your lessons guys, I think ill go for 3 oktavas mod but I need to ask about all the posibilities.

oktavas are for studio....and mkh416´s are for stagen and ONLY for stage???

[desotoslo]

I'd skip the oktava mods of large diaphragm condensers...

you are recording an orchestra in a hall? we need to be clear about this.

For the money, a pair of beyerdynamic mc930 are hard to beat for versatility and quality of sound. They are cardiod mics and are forgiving of poor acoustical spaces, more so than omni mics would be. Cardiods you want to set up ORTF.

You can buy them for I think around $700 for the pair in the USA from a store called Full Compass. You have to call for that price.

If you are looking for a cheap omni, I can recommend Audio Technica 4022. Not the cleanest and clearest sound, but still quite good for an affordable omni.

A pair of either of these would be great for an orchestra.

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by desotoslo

If you are looking for a cheap omni, I can definitely recommend Audio Technica 4022. You must buy them individually. They are a very nice affordable omni. Omnis you want to set up AB. And they are more dependent on a good sounding acoustic space. (B&H Photo sells them for $250 each, so $500 for a pair new... damn good, IMO)

A pair of either of these would be great for an orchestra. Skip the shotgun mic and the oktava large diaphragm condensers.

Nobody ever tried the Beyer MC910 in this situation ?

JMM

[Reiner]

I don´t know where you´re from, but if you´ll be able to get your hands on them, check some Haun mics from germany:

MBHO GmbH Mikrofonbau Haun - handmade microphones

Bang for bucks, especially for orchestra if schoeps is too expensive.

I personally prefer ORTF over XY every time when it comes to record classical stuff.

[Play]

Originally Posted by desotoslo

you are recording an orchestra in a hall? we need to be clear about this.

could I push you for some mic pointers for recording orchestral instruments in a normal studio enviroment? don't mean to divert, sounded like you knew about that particular alternative.

I'm going to purchase a bunch at once which will hopefully cover a full spectrum for all types of recording, just beginning my research and saving-up so please excuse my jumping in and jumping the gun. taking notes on real paper!

[achille]

I make recording in Decca Tree configuration with Avenson omni, it sound good, I prefer now to record in MS configuration there's no problem with phase in mono and give the possibility to play with the perspective.

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by analogica

Hi there,

Im looking for a some mics to record an orchesta, in decca 3 or XY...

I was looking for schoeps, but is really expesive, so im looking for some small brothers...something modded maybe, a cheaper mics with almost similar results.

Akgs???....oktavas??? I dunno.

And what about ribbons, are they ok for this purpose or they color too much.

Is the first im doing this...so im lost

Is there a pencil mic, which works ina studio and stage????

Thanks for your help guys

I am in aproximately the same situation and have decided to buy the Peluso CEMC6 as a cardioid pair to start with....they seem to have a lower self noise level than the others in this price bracket at 14db. I worry that if I get into a hall and really have to turn the mics up, mics with too high a level will hiss. The Shure ksm141 was another option but you get the omni and cardioid as part of the same deal, and consequently are too big an outlay for me in one go. They may be quieter still if I recall. I will then buy the omni capsules later. I think as a beginner for recording a choir I may be playing it a bit more dangerously with omnis and spacing them and a decca tree is a few attempts down the line for me too (and another mic to lay out for). So I will practise with cardioids first in xy and ortf. And as for those that say you need to spot mic etc, won't you be embarrasing the conductor a touch by saying you worry that certain sections could be too quiet?

Rich

[desotoslo]

Originally Posted by Play

could I push you for some mic pointers for recording orchestral instruments in a normal studio enviroment? don't mean to divert, sounded like you knew about that particular alternative.

I'm going to purchase a bunch at once which will hopefully cover a full spectrum for all types of recording, just beginning my research and saving-up so please excuse my jumping in and jumping the gun. taking notes on real paper!

Well, small diaphragms are good for clear and accurate representation of the source. The same mics used in a hall could be utilized in a studio setting. Good quality microphones are in general very versatile. Large diaphragms in general are not as accurate, but may be desirable depending on the use and source (vocals, for example). It depends what kind of sound you are after!

I would recommend perusing the forum, http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...ion-recording/

Lots of knowledgeable and friendly folks over there regarding classical music and acoustic instrument mic'ing.

[desotoslo]

Originally Posted by mathieujm

Nobody ever tried the Beyer MC910 in this situation ?

JMM

I'm looking forward to reports on these, Mathieujm! I bet they sound great...

[Avening]

Used to record large choirs all the time. The Sennheiser MKH40 & e914 pencil mics are absolutely phenomenal for this application. Check them out

[big country]

Image or sound quality or both,

[NorseHorse]

How about swinging on by the Remote forum (http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...ion-recording/)...?

They even have a tag for discussions about orchestras: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/tags/orchestra/

And here's a thread about bargain choir mics:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...y-cheaply.html