Sony PCM-M10 vs Olympus LS-11

[neo_fit]

Hello everybody ! This is my first post here altough I've been wandering here a few times before. I've always found what I was looking for but not this time.

I own an Olympus LS-10 that I use mainly to record rehearsals (4 and 7 pieces pop/funk bands). It’s really a little gem, far superior in build quality and sound quality to the Zoom H2 I first owned. Now the only point I’m complaining about is the fact it is a bit bass shy. I know it was made on purpose for the 2 mics and I know the line in mini jack does not have the bass filter, but I want to keep it simple, I don’t want to use external mics and preamps.

Please don’t tell me the H4n is the ticket, I don’t want a Zoom product anymore...

So I have been tempted by the LS-11 which is said to have better low spectrum (I found no audio test on the net to check that though) but now I see there’s this new Sony PCM-M10 which has all I need with almost the sound quality of its bigger brother, the PCM-D50... altough the mics seem way different.

So my choice between the LS-11 and the PCM-M10 would be mainly based on audio quality recording, can anyone help me with his/her experience ?

[eusyloemehl]

I currently bought the Olympus LS-11 and so far it has worked very well. I read about the bass roll-off below 85 Hz in the LS-10 (Olympus Ls-10 - O'Reilly Forums). So far I have only used the LS-11 for recording voice, piano, acoustic guitar and similarly mid range sounds. As I continue to work with it I will post updates on the device.

Positive features so far:
_Great design, fits the hand, everything is accessible easily one handed. Not heavy but heavy enough to have a solid feel.
_Easy to use menu.
_Connects to the PC very easy, however, MAKE SURE THAT YOU PUT THE USB settings to STORAGE MODE before you connect it to the computer.
_I compared the internal mics with a Soundman OKM stereo mic set. At a basic level the sound quality is not much different from the LS-11 internal mics. The external mics showed a lower input level than the internal mics. Using the OKMs I was able to switch from low to high mic sensitivity on the LS-11.
_The jog wheel to adjust the rec level and the headphone level is very handy.


What I think needs to be fixed in a firmware update is the following:
_The headphone output could be a little louder at max.
_As of today there is no way of editing track names on the device itself. You have to go through a PC.
_You can not change the folder names. If you do so on the PC it will restore the original folder names.
_There is no quick way of partially deleting a track. You can delete portions of a track, however, you have to start the deleting process and wait for the end point in real time, listening to it in full.

[John Willett]

I have been using the LS-10 (like you) and love the ergonomics of it. The LS-11 is the next step up.

But if I was going Sony I would go for the PCM-D50 as that unit includes digital ins and outs and can also be used as a "bit bucket" as a back-up recorder when using a larger machine.

The only thing I really don't like about the LD-10 and LS-11 is the lack of a digital input (eg: optical input integrated into the line-in).

Ahh well...............

[neo_fit]

According to Olympus documentation, the LS-10 internal mics can go down to 70hz, but my ears tell me the bass roll off begins around 100-110hz. Those of the LS-11 have a slightly better low freq sensitivity, they go go down to 60hz.

On this german site, they have made a very in depth test of both (and other recorders) and when listening to the choir recordings, one's can clearly feel stronger male voices with the LS-11. Too bad they did not do a modern music sample to hear what's happening with real bass !

After listening to a lot of samples, I can clearly affirm that the LS-11 has a better low to high spectrum balance, even if it's subtle. I think that the LS-11 is also more prone to handling noise because of the better lows. Anyway that's what the low cut button is made for.

John I agree with you, but the D50 is a bit too bulky and expensive for me. The M10 has some advantages over its bigger brother too. Check the specs.

[aryolkary]

Hi neo_fit, I had the LS10 a while ago, and now have the PCM-M10. I feel I'm much more satisfied with the Sony, in all respects (Olympus' build quality is very good though). The battery life is supreme, this is no joke, the best of all recorders in the world. The internal mics have a more balanced response, perhaps not as detailed (since the LS10 is brighter to my ears) but better bass, and is very useful. Also in Taperssection it's been very discussed, and someone compared it with Edirol r-09hr which is very popular for it's line in and mic inputs, and the Sony's apparently very very close to the Pcm-d50 in performance: a winner. Now, as John says, the D50 has digital in and out, but it is not pocketable really, and to make use of the digital in the setup ends up being way more expensive, and less portable (unless you go with something like Mic2496).
Also the Sony can be used as a high quality music Player, search for reviews on google and you'll find one where he tries 24/96 wav files and is pleasantly surprised.
Regards,
Ary

[neo_fit]

Hey, thanks for the informative answers guys. After reading forums and tests I had almost made my mind for the LS-11, after all I'm almost happy with the LS-10. But now I'm really reconsidering my position for the PCM-M10. That's a tough choice. Also both of them have the best battery durability of all recorders. I know the Sony is cheaper in the US that's why one may choose it over the LS-10, but in my country both are the very same price.

A last thing, I could not find the mic specifications for the Sony, what are their frequency range ?

[aryolkary]

Originally Posted by neo_fit

Hey, thanks for the informative answers guys. After reading forums and tests I had almost made my mind for the LS-11, after all I'm almost happy with the LS-10. But now I'm really reconsidering my position for the PCM-M10. That's a tough choice. Also both of them have the best battery durability of all recorders. I know the Sony is cheaper in the US that's why one may choose it over the LS-10, but in my country both are the very same price.

A last thing, I could not find the mic specifications for the Sony, what are their frequency range ?

These are the specs: "Electret condenser microphones. Max input level: 123 dB SPL. Frequency response 20 Hz to 20 kHz"
They are omni mics. There is stereo separation but minimal. The headphone out is quite good to monitor while or after recording.

A few links to get you going:
Taperssection thread:
Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
Battery life comparison Portable Recorder Battery Life Test Results!
Wingfield Review: Sony PCM-M10 Review
Review mentioning playback capabilities
Everything Audio Network: Home Recording Review! Sony PCM-M10 Digital Recorder/Player

In review: Sony’s PCM-M10 handheld digital recorder
Sony PCM-M10 Mobile Recorder ($399)

Specs:
Sony Product Detail Page - PCMM10/B

Personally, I'd rather get mini mics to go with the sony instead of the LS11 (if you want the best quality without big external mics and preamps) such as those discussed in Taperssection.
I think it comes to features of usability and ergonomics, personal likes.
I live in Argentina and received the Pcm-m10 through a friend, so I have no warranty whatsoever. I also received the AKG K702 headphones. Since both products are of high quality, I trusted not to have any problems (which I haven't).
I have not even bothered with AC adapter since the Sony can be used with AA batteries for days or weeks.
I think the LS11 is a very good product (not only because of the improved mics but features like dividing files) from the reviews though. I am very happy with the Sony and next step is Rode NT4 or some miniature mics, together with a good pair of IEMs (in ear monitors that isolate instead of open or closed headphones).
Regards,
Ary

[neo_fit]

Thanks ary. I've read all the reviews and comparative tests, but noone mention the frequency response of the internal mics of the PCM-M10. Frequency response of 20 Hz to 20 kHz is when using the line input at 44.1kHz. You get same values with the LS-11 line input.

[blujosh]

i know this is an older thread, but i thought i'd resurrect it to see if anyone had any updated info they could share in terms of comparing the two. i'm particularly interested in which would be better for recording "quieter", like field recordings of nature etc, using either the built in mics or external mini mics.

thanx!

[omegaomega]

What about the Marantz 620? Which of those small recorders has the best built-in mics in your experience slutz?

[omegaomega]

Anyone?...

[maks]

recently got the m10, couldn't be happier especially for the price ))

[supercommando440]

As good as the PCM-M10 sounds, it doesn't display folders properly. Folders with no MP3 files don't appear! LAME, LAME, LAME. For example:

If I copy this from PC: LEDZEP/LIVE/[mp3's here]
I see this in the menu: LIVE

If I put an MP3 in the LEDZEP folder, I see these in the menu:
LEDZEP
LEDZEP/LIVE

This is WRONG! I can't believe Sony got this screwed up. I should see LEDZIP. Clickit to see the MP3 file and the next child folder LIVE. Click LIVE to see the MP3 in the LIVE folder. I'm obviously pretty picky when it comes to managing my music on these devices. I assume most devices (like LS-10 and 11) show folders properly: show a list of artists (parent folders). The click an artist folder to see all the artists title subfolders. Click a title folder to see all the MP3 for that title. Simple stuff. Oh well...

So I went with an Olympus LS-11. I record drums. Recording quality on the Olympus LS-11 was better than the PCM-M10. Playback isn't as loud but loud enough for me. I also like the effects that can be applied using the LS10 (reverb and Euphony). Sony allows pitch and keynote adjustments but for drumming, I don't care about that. The quality of recording on the Sony wasn't that bad so I probably would've kept that device because it's a little slicker looking BUT the folder display is stupidly wrong, no effects ( the volume button is sort of lame). Sony should have added TWO dials (for volume and record) instead of just 1 record dial and a cheap plastic volume button.

[pound7]

i posted, looking for help about LS 10 / 11. After few attempts recording live rock concerts, I still can't figure out controls and the best settings. For example, is it best if MIC Sense is low or high? Should zoom setting be wide or normal? And so on...

If you know best way to record a live rock concert with Olympus LS 10 or LS 11, please help out; please respond this post:

LS 11 Advice - Mic setting, zoom settings? LS 10 ?

[boojum]

Originally Posted by pound7

i posted, looking for help about LS 10 / 11. After few attempts recording live rock concerts, I still can't figure out controls and the best settings. For example, is it best if MIC Sense is low or high? Should zoom setting be wide or normal? And so on...

If you know best way to record a live rock concert with Olympus LS 10 or LS 11, please help out; please respond this post:

LS 11 Advice - Mic setting, zoom settings? LS 10 ?

If, when recording, you are still in the "over" area of your recording display with the recording level set as low as it can go, set the switch to "Low." You should be able to stay out of the "Over" part with your recording set at about the middle of its range. Test it before the show starts. The level should be quite low then as the sound is quite low.

Recording angle? I would leave them at a 90 degree angle as supplied until you have a really, really good reason to change the angle.

Does that cover it??

[pound7]

it seems like low cut must be off when recording live, loud rock concerts. I think the Mic sense can be on high or low, depending on the range and if the meter goes over. either way, low cut must be off or you end up with a very muffled sound

is that about right?

hope this helps others