Advise needed for remote recording

[recordinghopkins]

hello slutz,


After a lot of searching and reading, I have noticed that a very many of you use radically different setups for location recording. With that in mind, I would love your input on revamping my rig. My remote biz just turned one year old, and I plan to invest the profit I have made back into my gear. I have about 1000 bucks to spend.

Let me begin by saying that I track with cubase, then import into PTMP for mixdown.

My business model targets local working bands that can't afford big studio time, so my costs are important so that I can keep my prices down. I am a recording industry college student as well, even more reason to keep cost down.

I only track 16 channels. Occasionally I have run into the need for 18 or 20 channels, but most 4 or 5 man bands keep the channel count to 14, plus a stereo pair for the crowd. I also do overdubs and VO work.

Current Gear:
ART Tubefire x2
ART SyncGen
ART s8 Mic Splitters x2
Mackie 1604 VLZ Pro
Alesis ADAT XT x2
cables to match
about 12 different mics, to supplement the venue's collection
M-audio Transit (for mixing in PT)
Macbook Pro Intel 17" Unibody

Signal flow is:
xformer split to house, direct split to me.
Tubefire FW out to MBP
Tubefire Analog outs>Mackie 1604>ADAT XTs
(I use the 8 direct outs, 6 aux sends, and two of the sub bus outputs to feed the ADATs and provide an easy way to solo each channel in my cans)

For live work, I obviously need redundant recording devices, which I achieve with the ADATs. I would love an HD24 to replace them, but that's not in the budget until my biz grows a little more.

For an upgrade, I am considering purchasing another 8 channels of mic splitters (200), M-audio Profire 2626 ($500), and making another 8 channels of multicore ($200).

My thoughts are that I will be able to use the adats as converters into the 16 lightpipe channels and simultaneously use the 8 mic pres that the Profire provides, giving me 24 channels when I need it. I already own a third Adat deck, which I would run analog outs from the 6 of the Profire's 8 mic pres, leaving two profire analog out channels for software monitoring. This would effectively give me 24 channels to DAW, 22 channels to safety ADATs. Additionally, I would now be able to overdub directly into PT. This is why I am considering the 2626 over other lightpipe front ends.

OR should I sell it all and start fresh? When I began, I did not think of future expansion, and I could probably get 2.5k out my stuff and still keep the splitters. combine that with the 1k I want to spend, and we're talking $3500 to spend if I start new.

SO, those of you with experience, some over 25 years, what do you think about this? I could sure use the input.

[recordinghopkins]

Ok, no replies, but here is what I have come up with on my own as a logical upgrade.

New Rack, HD24XR, Profire 2626, +8 more mic splitters...That would give us 24 channels to DAW (18 PTMP) using the A/D in the HD24 for 16 of them and the profire for the last 8, 22 channels of backup (because two of the 2626 outs would have to be SW return for monitoring), 4 channels of compression to tape, and it can all stay hardwired. Plus overdubs are easy into PTMP. Sell the mackie and ADAT XT's.


what do you think about that?

[bishopthomas]

Sounds like a good plan and a step up from what you have going on. However, I would keep the Mackie. You never know when you're going to need a small utility mixer. Where in TN are you? If you need help building and/or wiring your rack let me know.

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Sounds like a good plan and a step up from what you have going on. However, I would keep the Mackie. You never know when you're going to need a small utility mixer. Where in TN are you? If you need help building and/or wiring your rack let me know.

Hey thanks! I am in Murfreesboro, I see you list nashville on your profile. Hello neighbor!

Yea, I was double thinking selling the mackie too. But it has scratchy gain pots and I would really like something that can handle 24 tracks if the HD24 will allow adat and analog out at the same time. That way I can send 24 channels to the 2626 for DAW, 24 backup,and monitor everything from the analog outs on the HD24. Have any idea if this is possible?

[recordinghopkins]

Maybe even add a 24 channel patchbay at the bottom for patching those compressors, or hardwire them to 4 different channels from the Tubefires and always use those four channels for say, kick/snare/bass/lead vox when I want them. Bypass when I don't.

[ebulb]

Your situation is similar to mine... Im thinking about getting a profire 2626 soon.. I would like to run all 8 of the analog outs of the profire and still monitor though so i was looking at something like this..

Core Sound — HeadLine Portable 24/192 DAC, Headphone/Line Amplifier and Source Selector

Im thinking this would enable you to route the Profires mixer out to the spdif hardware out and then use a device such as that DAC headphone amp to monitor in cans or powered speakers etc..

Also found this which is cheap but wondering how good it would be..

NG98A AD1852 USB DAC SPDIF DAC& Headphone Amp Amplifier - eBay, Digital Music Systems Servers, Home Audio, Electronics. (end time 04-Feb-10 21:16:05 AEDST)


Another one from the same company...

http://www.ha-info.com/en/ng94.htm

[recordinghopkins]

I too looked at that DAC on ebay, and the chinese to english translation lists it as "very perfect"

I don't think you can route the 26's mixer to the spdif, only your daw return. The software mixer routes the headphone mixes to 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8.

This would not be a problem for live recording, but you wouldn't be able to get near zero latency monitoring from the spdif. In my case, I welcome the delay in my cans when I am recording live shows, it makes it easier to differentiate what I am recording and what is room noise in a loud venue. I often run my daw with a high buffer to achieve as much latency as possible when recording live.

I expect my 2626 to arrive tomorrow, I will let you know what happens.

[ebulb]

Id be interested to hear what you can route to the spdif exactly, are you 100% sure you cant do the DSP mixer ? Thats a shame if so.. Please let me know when you get the 2626, im interested to hear.

I was looking to run a high buffer also, to minimise any problems during recording and the latency would help as you say. In my case with the DAC im mainly looking at it because i really want all 8 ananlog outs and i want to be able to setup a template in the mixer and DAW and leave everything patched it..

the only solution i could envisage without the DAC and using 8 analog outs is to not monitor in "realtime" at all, and then switch outs 1/2 back to S/W return to listen back after a songs finished at soundcheck.. The DAC isnt perfect but id rather have it and then just worry about hitting start and stop and tweaking levels...

Also how do you find the Art S8 ? Have they ever given you any trouble at all ?

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by ebulb

Also how do you find the Art S8 ? Have they ever given you any trouble at all ?

I like the Tubefires for what they are, and I elaborate more in my posts on this Tubefire thread.

[ebulb]

Tubefires are pre amps arent they ? I already have pre amps and the 2626 will provide 8 more but im looking to buy splitters also. Hence i was wondering about the S8's ? I noticed in your current gear list you have them listed.

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by ebulb

Tubefires are pre amps arent they ? I already have pre amps and the 2626 will provide 8 more but im looking to buy splitters also. Hence i was wondering about the S8's ? I noticed in your current gear list you have them listed.

Yes, the tubefires are preamps with firewire 400 built in. Word has it that there is an upgraded unit on the way in a few months, the ART OptoPre8, that will also include lightpipe outs.

The S8?
I like them. While I am not a gear pimp, I like ART's stuff. Keeping with the idea that low(er) cost gear allows for low prices to my customers, they work very well for me. Ground lift and pad on every channel (although I rarely use the pad since my preamps have them) and reversible rack ears put this splitter in the pro range, and still only about $200 for 8 channels. The transformers are very musical, and are certainly not going to be the weakest link in most signal chains. You can do much better with active splitters to boost the signal for longer cable runs, or buy or build units with Jensen brand transformers, but now you are talking about thousands of dollars. I have 24 channels now (just got my third unit), a $600 investment. That's about as inexpensive as it gets for passive transformer isolation as far as I have found.

[ebulb]

Cool, thats good to hear.. When you say long cable runs being better with active splitters... Do you know if the S8 would be ok up to 50 meters or so ? the handful of times ive used splitters live its always been short distance of around 5 meters, right near the stage and its been hired gear.

If you have time id be keen to hear how you go with the 2626 also as im looking to make these purchases in the next few weeks.. Cheers.

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by ebulb

Cool, thats good to hear.. When you say long cable runs being better with active splitters... Do you know if the S8 would be ok up to 50 meters or so ? the handful of times ive used splitters live its always been short distance of around 5 meters, right near the stage and its been hired gear.

If you have time id be keen to hear how you go with the 2626 also as im looking to make these purchases in the next few weeks.. Cheers.

you would probably be ok with that length of run, but it's a matter of length:signal ratio... the longer the run, the lower the signal. Keep in mind that 1 mic will be driving the length of your snake, PLUS the length of the house snake. Keep it as short as you can manage. I have several snakes that I can connect together so that when I need less length I don't have a coil of wire just sucking up db's. That way I only degrade the signal as much as I have to...

Sure, I will let you know how it works out once I get it set up and give her a go.

[audibell]

I agree sell the insurance XTs, they didn't seem to line up very well with the hard drive recorded files for me. I, too, would keep the Mackie until you start dreading dragging it around because by then you'll know you'll have ironed out any kinks in the new system - hope your FW cards and the WdClk keep playing nice.

Definitely max out your iso splits if you can afford it, so you never have any issues blamed on you by harried FOH guys. I would try a small splitter with a Lundahl or Jensen txfmr to compare with the output of your chinese ones - switch out txfmrs as you earn the cash plus you have the pleasure of really knowing your gear when you wire stuff up yourself, which you seem to have done w/the multis.

Looks like you've got your business model up and running. Good for you!
WalterT

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by audibell

I agree sell the insurance XTs, they didn't seem to line up very well with the hard drive recorded files for me. I, too, would keep the Mackie until you start dreading dragging it around because by then you'll know you'll have ironed out any kinks in the new system - hope your FW cards and the WdClk keep playing nice.

Definitely max out your iso splits if you can afford it, so you never have any issues blamed on you by harried FOH guys. I would try a small splitter with a Lundahl or Jensen txfmr to compare with the output of your chinese ones - switch out txfmrs as you earn the cash plus you have the pleasure of really knowing your gear when you wire stuff up yourself, which you seem to have done w/the multis.

Looks like you've got your business model up and running. Good for you!
WalterT

Thanks Walter,

And thanks EVERYONE for your advice. I have completed phase 1 of my upgrade, A New Rack, Profire 2626, 8 more channels of mic splitters.
Phase 2 will include the addidtion of an HD24xr, Masterlink, a 24 channel mixer, and a UPS. The sale of my adat XT's and Mackie 1604 will follow.

Pictures of the new gear are in this thread.

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

If you need help building and/or wiring your rack let me know.

Hey man, feel like a soldering party? I have 216 solder connections to make....

[ergower]

sounds like you have a good plan. I use a similar setup to what you are going for (and I'm an MTSU RIM grad as well)....I'd be glad to answer any general questions if you get stuck.

Cheers,
Ross

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by ergower

sounds like you have a good plan. I use a similar setup to what you are going for (and I'm an MTSU RIM grad as well)....I'd be glad to answer any general questions if you get stuck.

Cheers,
Ross

Excellent! Thanks for the offer!

Pro Tech or Biz?

[ergower]

Pro Tech...

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by ergower

Pro Tech...

When did you graduate?

I'll keep you in the rolodex for the occasion that I get too booked up, maybe I can slide some business your way.

[recordinghopkins]

I just thought I would update this thread.

Now using an HD24xr purchased from the GS classifieds, and it works exactly as I had hoped. The best investment yet for location recording, and I use it in my project studio for the converters alone. It's a real sleeper, and has made an immediate difference in the quality of my recordings.

Profire 2626 plays nicely, almost always, but any issues usually come from improper power-on sequence because I slave it's clock to the lightpipe in from the HD24xr. for now the mackie is allowing me to monitor all 24 channels (by using the 4 stereo returns as well as all 16 faders) when I need to use all channels. otherwise I use 22 or less, (skipping 1/2 on the profire so I can use the analog outs to HD24) and monitor from the HP jacks on the 2626.

I'm completely happy with the new setup, and it has proven reliable for 8 shows now. I'm thinking of adding an active mic split at my rack, a 24 channel mixer with direct outs and a second HD24 or 24xr so I can have redundant preamps and recorders and leave the macbook at home. Throw in a masterlink, and I can give my clients a performance two mix to walk away with.


We're gonna be at BB King's in Nashville on Sat the 28th of August (next weekend) if any local gearslutz want to come check it out and talk shop. PM me and I will add you on the door list as crew.

Cheers