Location Music Video Recording

[newrob1]

I am currently involved with a promoter who does live music videos at the venue I engineer at. The video company does a 3 camera shoot and the bands play a selected song 2 times during their set. I multitrack this on an HD24 and send the L/R mix to 2 track. I give the two track to the video company and they use that to assemble the video. When they give it back to me, I mix down the 24 track while watching the video so I can bring up solos ant key times, crowd effects, etc. I rely on trying to hit play on the video and the multitrack at the same time. In the end, I nudge the audio to get it to line up with the artists lips to make the sync look right. To me this is a primitive way to do it. What is the correct way, SMPTE, or some sort of time code on both the video and 24 track? Please help as the promoter has signed a contract to do 4 videos a week for the next year and I would rather streamline my techniques than get real good at doing it the hard way.
Thanks in advance!

[cajonezzz]

Uh.....

lip sync?

[Remoteness]

Simple way...

Mix the show (or song) then give the final mix to the video folks so they can cut to it.

And while you at it... read up (a little) on Smpte timecode and such. Then we will have a discussion about it.

[newrob1]

Hey cajonezzz, do me a favor... If you see someone asking a serious question, don't be a dick. You remind me of the UK dorks that give a smartass answer to everything on the Sound on Sound BB. Seriously, think of your answer for a moment. We are shooting a live music video with two different takes of the same song and you want to make a comment like, "Duh, lip sync" C'mon Dude, you're making this like an AOL Chatroom and not a serious audio site. More Respect... fuuck

[newrob1]

remoteness, thanks for the "Serious" answer. I guess I will stick to the way I have been doing it then study up on what you suggested. My desire to watch as I mix comes from mixing live for many years and finding that the closer I watch the band, the more intimate I get with the mix and the better the end result. I know that the video company says they match the video up with the audio that I give them but I have a desire to do the opposite so I don't have to touch the video track on the timeline. Anyway, thanks again.


"No More Dickheads, Please!" dfegad "dickheads"

[Remoteness]

Listen, Don't do it the way you're doing it now.
There's too much pain for no gain...

Just mix the material like it should sound. If people clap, raise their level. If someone soloing, bring it up.

The short story about locking the two media together is as follows...

Print (record) the timecode from their original video shoot onto your machine.
When they finish their edits have them make you a copy of the material on a VCR or whatever with SMPTE TC on the audio tracks -- Have your machine loct to the VCR. Meaning the VCR should be the master and your multitrack should be the save. Now you're ready to look at the video at the same time. Use this system when you want top make sure your mix is matching the visuals. It will not work so well if you're stopping and starting a lot. It may take a whil for the machine to catch up... so, get the tracks up first. Make sure everything is everything then lock to the video.

Remember this is not the most professional approach but it IS better then the way you're doing it now.

The real way to do it is if yu had two controllable machine transports. Then you could layback the audio to their master machine and such.

Anyway, I got a video shoot in a few hoursl still got a ton of paper work to do besides the fact that I I just got back from a video shoot in Nashville while one of my trucks is at the Blue Note all week recording and some of my portable gear making it's way back to NYC from a gig in Orlando...

I'm sleepy and need to go back to what I'm doing butI wanted toi come up for air to reply to this thread.

I hope this helped.

I'm not proof reading so I hope this makes good sense.

Best to you and yours.

[newrob1]

Thanks Steve, for the explaination and taking the time. You get frustrated when you have spent many years doing the live thing then try something new like videos and it doesn't become crystal clear on day one, you know? I'll keep at it at count on your input to guide me.

Take care.

[cajonezzz]

Originally Posted by newrob1

remoteness, thanks for the "Serious" answer. I guess I will stick to the way I have been doing it then study up on what you suggested. My desire to watch as I mix comes from mixing live for many years and finding that the closer I watch the band, the more intimate I get with the mix and the better the end result. I know that the video company says they match the video up with the audio that I give them but I have a desire to do the opposite so I don't have to touch the video track on the timeline. Anyway, thanks again.


"No More Dickheads, Please!" dfegad "dickheads"

Sorry Rob, i didn't read your first post closely... I assumed you were talking about a second run through of the tune live for filming purposes only... that triggered the "lipsync" response. ( lipsync to the prior track ) wasn't even thinking of this being in front of a "real" audience.
no condescension intended ( i'm doing a live 8 cam shoot in studio myself)

As Steve said: just mix it to sound good, like you'd do any live recording.
Same goes for clapping/applause. If the director wants more crowd response, he can always fly more in at final layback. I've handed editors applause tracks ( the crowd respone inbetween tracks that i cobble together in PT ) as seperate files so he can add "support " to the audience. ( often times if the act is going on late in the nite, or they are say redoing the one tune they did earlier- the crowd could have dwindled already - so the need for flying in a little more crowd- I've seen em fly in canned stuff, but it's nice to make the original available as well)
Not to preclude a discussion on SMPTE and locking machines to code.

the "easiest " thing for you to do would be to chase a quicktime vid while mixing in the box, which I'm going to assume your not, so:
You could give them a mix with code printed on Left mono mix on right ( for them to cut pix to)
When they layback the final cut, your hdr will need to chase smpte tone coming from their final cut ( the code you sent them) You'll have to do some research as to your hdr's abilities to chase. If your machine is going to start and stop via vcr control- it will be a little sketchy, but doable. ( in the old days we used various interface boxes to lock the 2 inch, now always a quicktime movie ) Personally, I think your job is pretty much done at the point of handing them a good mix. In my experience mixing live show's to pix is much the same as mixing a live album--- unless your doing a doc style thing where you are the post guy and are dealing with dialog over music and all.... OR if your going for "effect" ( like the cams cut away to a backstage shot during the show and your wanting the audio to reflect that ) just mix that sukka.
be glad to help if i can!
craig

[cajonezzz]

Hey Rob, is this a San Diego based production? Barfly?

[newrob1]

Thanks for reading into my post Craig. Also thanks for the info. As for the production, King Rey Films is the video house and Barfly is the promoter. I handle the audible end and am just trying to hone my techniques in getting the audio to video. The results are good now, given the quality of local talent in S.D., but like a lot of other guys I don't mind getting the "correct" gear and learning how pro houses do it. I have been in the same room in S.D. for 5 years and dailed in my technique for getting great sounding live recordings, both 2 track and 24 track. I just feel like there is a more surgical method of syncing the audio to video than I am doing and I'm always trying to learn more and get better everyday and I've been at it for 15 years now. You can never be too skilled, you know? Anyway, thanks for the info!