On-location recording of choir and grand piano. Mic selection/placement help!

[dromedar]

Dear experts and fellow slutz!
I am a long time lurker in this forum, not too frequent poster! I usually record in my own studio, but for this particular project i will record in several different locations. First out is this choir/piano session.

I am about to record a choir accompanied by a grand piano in a less than perfect room (combined church/recital hall with a bit too much acoustic treatment). More instruments and soloists will be overdubed at a later date. The choir consists of 50 amateur singers assembled for this project. The songs are contemporary classical church-music (not gospel/worship more towards classical).

I am planning on using a main ORTF pair with Omni outriggers plus a ORTF spot for the grand piano. I am also thinking of recording a distant stereo pair for ambience and a omni ldc placed close above the strings of the piano, just to have options. Any opinions or suggestions about this setup? I will not have much time to setup before we need to start recording, tight schedule as always so your input is very valuable.

Which microphone/pre goes where in your opinion/experience?

Available gear:
3 AKG c414-BULS
2 AKG c461 e CK1
2 Shure ksm32
2 Oktava mk012
1 Röde nt2000

4 ch Focusrite red
2 ch SPL Goldmike
4 ch RME fireface pre

Room rectangular shape
Choir centered in front, three rows
piano to the left
No audience


Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Markus Nordlund

[audibell]

Hi, it's a multi-location project but you'll have to rush to set up or record a sound check? Then you must keep the set-up simple and somewhat similar at each of the different locations.
Use the Oktava and one of the 414s as a main pair in Mid/Side, 12ft high, pointed up the middle because you'll probably need to help the room acoustic.
Put the two 32s over the piano, suspended by duct tape bridge across the harp girders, lid on the quarter stick and throw the cover around the gap for isolation.
Take the remaining 414s on a stand each and place them at choir left and choir right, in fig-8, about 4ft back & 10ft up, pointing into the choir second row (on risers?) and the nulls to the sides,

This means you have to plant three sticks and run 6 cables back to your recording lair. Fiddling about in the piano will take time, so you must visit the site ahead of time, with a pianist, to check out where to place the tape suspension bridges and what your gain levels should be. Or use another two stands. If the piano's not really needed for the recording but used for a work track to keep the singers together, just use one mic.

For me, the voices are best laid out with the brightest on the sides and the inner voices in the centre. Soprano, Bass, Alto, Tenor, left to right. That's because the mid mic doesn't want to be pointing at the Sops or Tenz. Your director's mileage will, no doubt, vary so offer suggestions but endure the result.
I wouldn't obsess over which pre gets which mic but the main pair should of course have priority. If the next location has more reverb, change to the 451s in ORTF or some coincident method you trust.
Have fun and post a sample!
WalterT

[dromedar]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have managed to get more soundcheck/setup time by rearranging the recording schedule together with the director (moved some solo instrument overdubs...). I hope to try a few different setups!

/Markus

[RichS]

I really detest choral recordings where the piano is off to one side. No matter how you spot/pan the piano, room acoustics (reverb tails) will place it to that left side and make it sound a little distant. Since this isn't a performance situation, I'd suggest the piano be centered several feet BEHIND the conductor, lid open towards the choir, on short stick. This position will help with separation and give you more options for mixing. It will also help to keep both ends of the choir together as singers sometimes have a tendency to sing slightly behind the beat while listening to the piano for support.

I like WalterT's mic suggestions, but be careful with the 414 outriggers to keep the piano in their nulls.

Good luck, and have fun.

RichS

[dtf]

It is quite usual to have a piano on the left side of the choir. In my experience, this position generally doesn't present as much problems as one might think in advance, given the singers can sing over the instrument. I have had the piano behind the mains and have to say that the distance to get it right generally is quite far, and it is uncomfortable for musicians to perform like this when they are not used to it.

The main problem I see here is the overdubbing afterwards - this will have to be taken into account from the first recording onwards. It wil be difficult to blend the instruments, as you will want the choir to sound like an acoustically gelled group but have to take care not to add too much of the room response with subsequent recordings.

Dirk