How do you mix a six mic recording?

[evisto]

Imagine two cardiod mics for a violin, two for a piano and stereo omne pair.
How do you usually mix them?
What´s the normal proportion of every pair in the mix?

evisto

[Legacy]

It totally depends on how the main pair sound and what kind of music it is.

If the hall is good and the main pair pick up a nice balance I might use little to none of the other spots (say less than 10-15%).

Try working with the main pair only and EQ a bit if necessary. Get it sounding as good as it can. You may be able to stop here.

If not then slowly bring up the violin spots until they begin to add a little presence and fullness. Then check to see if the vln to piano balance is now too much in favor of the vln. If so, slowly bring up the piano spots until they also add a touch of presence and place the piano behind and around the violin. If the piano spots were recorded too closely a little reverb can help.

Beyond that, mix to taste. If the music wants more presence / immediacy go for it.

Maybe you know all this already but this is how I approach it.

Hope this helps,
Silas

[Jarp2600]

As long as the violist doesn't move too much, I'd actually grab her with 1 cardioid mic only. Otherwise the stereo image will really get weird, with 3 different stereo setups (imagine, the violist is positioned on the right side of the stage, and therefore closer to the right omni mic, but a bit closer to the left spot mic. Where will you hear the violin on your recording?)

And as mentioned above, build the mix with the omni's, and only use the spot mics to add a bit of body to the mix.

[JonesH]

I think it's useful to capture the spots in stereo as well, but sometimes I end up using only one of them. Sometimes mono's more useful, and sometimes stereo makes the source less obviously spot-miced.

But the stereo spot mics aren't usually panned hard left and right, no? Cause that'll surely screw up the imaging. One has to fake it in order to make it...

I'll also admit that since I've mostly done concerts I haven't had the inputs nor the visual possibility to do much stereo, but when I have done sessions stereo spots usually seem useful. Interested to hear other peoples experiences as well of course!

[just.sounds]

Originally Posted by JonesH

But the stereo spot mics aren't usually panned hard left and right, no? Cause that'll surely screw up the imaging. One has to fake it in order to make it...

When you position the mics really carefull they can be hard panned and that is ideal.
When you start to pan you always will add "mono" to the mix when you add the spots.
This is especially noticable in the sound of the reverb it loses width.

But don't be afraid to experiment sometimes a vertical stereo pair is really usefull you get full stereo reverb but as long as the player is at the same heigth the stereo positioning stays the same. Now if you if you did position the mics so that that position corresponds with the stereo image of the main pair than you are in buisiness.

Remember panning to the middle(less hard l/r) is the same as adding more m to an m/s recording.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by evisto

Imagine two cardiod mics for a violin, two for a piano and stereo omne pair.
How do you usually mix them?
What´s the normal proportion of every pair in the mix?

evisto

Way too many mic's for this project.

Some sort of stereo pair to taste, and one mic each on the instruments, only to be used if needed. And if needed, only at the threshold of the spot mic's making any difference at all. If these mic's end up messing with your stereo image, you have the spots too hot.

[JonesH]

Originally Posted by just.sounds

When you position the mics really carefull they can be hard panned and that is ideal.
When you start to pan you always will add "mono" to the mix when you add the spots.
This is especially noticable in the sound of the reverb it loses width.

Good points. You're of course quite right that hard panned mics can work as long as they're carefully placed. The vertical stereo is a good reminder - haven't used that in a while. Thanks!

[dtf]

Originally Posted by JEGG

Way too many mic's for this project.

Some sort of stereo pair to taste, and one mic each on the instruments, only to be used if needed. And if needed, only at the threshold of the spot mic's making any difference at all. If these mic's end up messing with your stereo image, you have the spots too hot.

Well, in a perfect world, I'd agree. It's rather uncommon, though, that violin and piano are in balance - the piano is generally too large and the acoustics of the instruments are very different. While acceptable in a concert situation, these things become clear in a recording.

A good engineer will take care that the recorded sound will be in balance, no matter what the situation. Extra microphones might be the only solution, and the more you need them the better it is when they are stereo pairs.

I have never had problems with spots messing with the stereo image - you just make sure the localization overlaps with the mains. Stereo spots, as a rule, are always panned hard L/R - let the faders do the panning.

In some situations, it might help to forget the idea of a main microphone with spots, and think of spots with a main microphone (or a nice reverb).

Best,
Dirk

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by dtf

Well, in a perfect world, I'd agree. It's rather uncommon, though, that violin and piano are in balance - the piano is generally too large and the acoustics of the instruments are very different. While acceptable in a concert situation, these things become clear in a recording.

If this is common, either or all of the musicians, the placement of the musicians, the space, or the placement of microphones is unacceptable.

I don't recall ever having a problem with this. I have suggested different setups for musicians, which they usually welcome as they hear better, the balance in the room is improved, and often they look better as well. I've also occasionally changed the position of the piano lid.