16-24 input mobile recording rig...Thoughts

[BFSound]

So i know there are tons of these threads but hey. I want to start putting together a 16-24 input mobile recording rig. I basically looking for pieces of gear and some methods like where i might wanna split at etc... Some info for you guys. i cant really tell what mixers or stuff like that i will most likely be used at the venues but i will need to record lead vox, 2 back up vox, bass, 2 guits, keys, and then drums (most likely 6-10 mics depending on venue and set up for that show. I generally will be running FOH or monitors or if i let the engineers for that night run it ill be everywhere but mostly off to the side of stage. So i want a right where i can split the inputs and then set up my tracks and pretty much let the rig record with minimal monitoring sometime i will be able to monitor the entire show as long as nothing goes wrong where i need to restring or fix a broken strap etc...

look forward to some tips and maybe someone could give me an equipment list and hook up methods. I want to use our macbook with some sort of DAW. I will get some more info on the comp later this week.

[henryrobinett]

2-3 ULN-8s. Done.

[BFSound]

ill check them out, can they be linked to create more inputs im assuming? I dont really honestly know much about digital recording :( Also i need to record X amount of tracks for the entire set. Im also probably going to need an external bus powered drive. And do those come with a DAW or whats a good DAW? And i have already looked into UPS's etc..

[rumleymusic]

2-3 ULN-8s. Done.

ULN-8 is not the only practical option, although its users would beg to differ

If you don't have $16000 just lying around for 3 uln8's, you can look at other good interfaces like 2 Steinberg MR816, or AH firewire mixers, or Presonus Studio live console.

[BFSound]

I was just going to say ha yea right 6 k for one thats not an option

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

ULN-8 is not the only practical option, although its users would beg to differ

If you don't have $16000 just lying around for 3 uln8's, you can look at other good interfaces like 2 Steinberg MR816, or AH firewire mixers, or Presonus Studio live console.

im thinking the presonus after we invest in a few interfaces and a DAW etc... we should just get that and have all the EQ, gates built in which will allow me to mix them on the mixer and record into they're software. When recording with the presonus when you mix with the board itself does it record the tracks how they are set on the mixer it self like levels and EQ etc...

[BFSound]

Im thinkin the studio live will be what i want. I can record pre or post fat channel which is the boards EQ and stuff so basically i can record PRE EQ or post which is nice i could use the board as a mobile live monitor board and record PRE fat and do alot with the mixer. I did find one used a few months back and researched the mixer pretty heavily so im already comfortable with its features and navigation etc...

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by BFSound

I was just going to say ha yea right 6 k for one thats not an option

Well sorry! You didn't give a price range, at least thatI saw!

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Well sorry! You didn't give a price range, at least thatI saw!

No biggie i should have stated that.

[RobAnderson]

I'd check out the JoeCo Blackbox.

But that's just me

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by RobAnderson

I'd check out the JoeCo Blackbox.

But that's just me

I did check that out as i came across that other thread asking about that thing. And it looks cool but for me id much rather record on something like the studiolive which i can also have pre programmed and set up as FOH or monitors if we play at a venue thats not sufficient enough.

[bishopthomas]

I have been seriously looking in to the StudioLive lately myself. It looks like I'll probably buy one in February and use it with a Profire Lightbridge. If it checks out then I'll buy another one as soon as possible for a 32-track rig.

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

I have been seriously looking in to the StudioLive lately myself. It looks like I'll probably buy one in February and use it with a Profire Lightbridge. If it checks out then I'll buy another one as soon as possible for a 32-track rig.

Exactly i would most likely end up with two What would the profire do give you extra pre's or so you can use it with another DAW? I also heard there might be a 24ch in the works. Sucks cuz like everyone who bought the ZED16 and now A&H confirmed the larger model is on paper soon to be built. Still you can find the studio live for under $1800 which is good im my opinion thumbsup

Let me know if you get et and get a few uses in we will probably be picking one up sometime Feb/ March as we will be on the road for awhile.

[bishopthomas]

The MAudio Profire Lightbridge is simply a 32 channel ADAT to Firewire converter interface. I have been stuck on trying to make this thing work for so long that I forgot that I won't need it with the StudioLive. Although, I wish the StudioLive had ADAT out, then I could use the PFLB with another computer for backup. As it is I guess I will be buying one (then another) HD24 for backup and using the analog ins.

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

The MAudio Profire Lightbridge is simply a 32 channel ADAT to Firewire converter interface. I have been stuck on trying to make this thing work for so long that I forgot that I won't need it with the StudioLive. Although, I wish the StudioLive had ADAT out, then I could use the PFLB with another computer for backup. As it is I guess I will be buying one (then another) HD24 for backup and using the analog ins.

Yea im sold on the studiolive now i just have to convince the band to drop to loot and not try and take some ghetto route and make me work harder trying to give them quality live recordings!

[bishopthomas]

Originally Posted by BFSound

Yea im sold on the studiolive now i just have to convince the band to drop to loot and not try and take some ghetto route and make me work harder trying to give them quality live recordings!

The never ending battle of trying to talk sense into musicians. Good luck! I ended up buying the gear myself and renting it to the band I was working with. By the end of the tour they decided to buy it from me rather than renting. Since I got the A&H console at dealer cost I was able to buy a new one and still make a couple hundred bucks. So maybe pitch the idea of renting it from you first, that is if you can front the money.

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

The never ending battle of trying to talk sense into musicians. Good luck! I ended up buying the gear myself and renting it to the band I was working with. By the end of the tour they decided to buy it from me rather than renting. Since I got the A&H console at dealer cost I was able to buy a new one and still make a couple hundred bucks. So maybe pitch the idea of renting it from you first, that is if you can front the money.

Yes that never ending battle. Luckily they generally listen to me and since they brought up the idea of recording shows (not me) it should go over smoothly. We are pretty much done in the studio so they dont have to focus they're funds on that much anymore . Plus the idea of being able to expand the board up to 64 CH and have presets and recorded gigs to do a virtual sound check w/o them even being there, C'mon!

[valleysound]

Have you checked out and O1V96V2? I think there's a card now for firewire recording.

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by valleysound

Have you checked out and O1V96V2? I think there's a card now for firewire recording.

I have seen them around on ebay and other places but have not looked into them? I like the aspect of studiolive for the simply fact its designed for live the recording is a bonus.

Whats good about the yamaha?

[bishopthomas]

The O1V is a decent console but I think the StudioLive might be the way to go. Only 12 preamps in the Yamaha, but you do get 8 channels of onboard ADAT I/O. The O1v is slow and clunky for live use (imo) and while I have not yet used the Presonus it looks to be way better for live hands-on mixing. Also, I haven't checked the going price of used O1V's, but by the time you add the Firewire card I think you could have bought a new StudioLive.

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

The O1V is a decent console but I think the StudioLive might be the way to go. Only 12 preamps in the Yamaha, but you do get 8 channels of onboard ADAT I/O. The O1v is slow and clunky for live use (imo) and while I have not yet used the Presonus it looks to be way better for live hands-on mixing. Also, I haven't checked the going price of used O1V's, but by the time you add the Firewire card I think you could have bought a new StudioLive.

I looked and they are more than the studiolive, and read on a few forums people asking can i make it to 8 aux and expand this blah blah seems like a hassle. I like what the studiolive brings to the live game thumbsup

[valleysound]

I never used the Studiolive. I was just being the Devil's advocate!

[TC Custom Audio]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

2-3 ULN-8s. Done.

No. Still need mic splits.

Check out the Klark Tekink Square One Splitter.

It's 8 channels, so you'd need three of them. They're about $900/ea. That's a rockin' deal for an active split with two sets of electronically balanced outputs and one set of transformer isolated outputs. So, you've got a REALLY GOOD SOUNDING three way split that's active so you don't have all those issues with loading. Plus, it will sense +48v at the outputs and activate +48v on corresponding inputs so the FOH or monitor guys can still control that. PLUS, the pre's (it's active so it has pre's) are the same as used in the Midas XL8. BTW, the pre's have 45dB of gain. You'd want to be conservative with these so that the FOH/Monitor/Broadcast truck/etc. have enough headroom. Still, it'll reduce the noise floor for long cable runs. All in all, it's a pretty terrific box.

[bishopthomas]

Yes, my friend just bought a StudioLive and said it was muchbetter than the O1V that he used to own. Can't wait to pick one up myself. I like the modular console idea; to link 4 together for 64 channels at less than $8000 would be amazing.

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

2-3 ULN-8s. Done.

What he said. But if that's too rich for your blood, 3 2882s should be fine. Or, what I used for a long time, 2 2882s and an RME Octamic D (which is still a great thing to have when you move up to ULN-8s, because it does AES at high sample rates).

For a much cheaper and reliable option, an Alesis HD24 XR with 3 8 channel mic pres.

That's my 03c.
Edwin

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz

What he said. But if that's too rich for your blood, 3 2882s should be fine. Or, what I used for a long time, 2 2882s and an RME Octamic D (which is still a great thing to have when you move up to ULN-8s, because it does AES at high sample rates).

For a much cheaper and reliable option, an Alesis HD24 XR with 3 8 channel mic pres.

That's my 03c.
Edwin

All good ideas will look into some of that stuff, helps to have options thumbsup

[GuelahPapyrus]

I think this may be my first or second post, so forgive me if I'm hijacking this thread.

This is also totally off subject, but let me start by saying I'm honored to be posting in the same thread with Edwin Hurwitz, who is IMHO one of the top 10 (definitely top 3 tone wise) bass players to ever walk the planet. Hope you are well Edwin, man I miss Shockra.

So anyways, I'm in the same type of situation as BFsound, and I've been lurking around this site for a couple months trying to determine what direction I want to go gear wise. I'll let you know what I'm doing right now, and where I'm leaning towards going. This is more of a low end approach than the other opinions that have been mentioned so far, as I'm working with a limited budget.

My current gigs consist of archiving a weekly open jam, a band that plays out 2-4 times a month (all smaller bar/club gigs) and a couple festivals a year where I record one of the smaller stages (10-12 bands playing 80 minute sets). What I'm mainly looking for is a 16-24 track bit box to capture recordings and quickly be able to transfer the files into a computer to do post work.

My present setup consists of a Korg D1200mkii, which only gives me 4 tracks for recording (limiting me to sbd/aud matrix mixes), and takes forever to export files into my dell studio laptop. I use Reaper to mix/edit/"master" and burn CD's or upload to the internet. Here is a link to the latest project I've been working on for a glimpse of what I'm getting quality wise with this setup. The Kings 2009-12-11 Southwick Inn, Southwick MA - Playlist - DivShare

My remaining budget is around $2000, but I also need to purchase a decent set of monitor speakers for mixing, making my budget that much smaller.

I've pretty much ruled out recording to a laptop. With my budget this seems like the least reliable option (especially seeing I'm using a Dell).

My next option would be moving towards buying a HD unit like the HD24 Edwin mentioned. To do this would require me either finding another grand or so (which would delay a purchase), as I think right now my monitor speakers are my weakest link. This seems like the best way for me to go UNLESS...

The zoom R16 actually works (I have more concerns the more I read about it here on GS). I'm most in love with the following options, that I haven't been able to find at any price point.

-8 track recording (16 if 2 are linked together) onto SD cards, which seems to be the most reliable recording option out there right now. (I have no evidence about the truth of that last statement, but it seems logical - am I wrong?)
-Option to run on batteries!! This would have been great when I was recording a festival in the woods this summer and we were having major power issues.

And to top it all off they cost $400 a pop. It sounds too good to be true, which is why I'm hesitant. If these things cost $899 a pop I would have bought one already (I hope samson doesn't see that).

So what should I do? Sit tight and wait to buy a HD recorder? I would love to hear some opinions, or maybe some options I haven't uncovered yet. In the meantime I might grab one of the R16's and play around with it. If it works well I'll buy another one.

Sorry again if I'm hijacking a thread, I just thought my two cents might open this discussion up a little bit.

[BFSound]

I guess we can share this thread but you have different needs for your rig then mine so i personally think a different thread would have been more appropriate. I already decided on the live so hopefully you'll get help on my thread? Good luck to ya. the yamaha mentioned above is pretty good for recording but not live mixing.

[valleysound]

Originally Posted by GuelahPapyrus

I think this may be my first or second post, so forgive me if I'm hijacking this thread.

This is also totally off subject, but let me start by saying I'm honored to be posting in the same thread with Edwin Hurwitz, who is IMHO one of the top 10 (definitely top 3 tone wise) bass players to ever walk the planet. Hope you are well Edwin, man I miss Shockra.

So anyways, I'm in the same type of situation as BFsound, and I've been lurking around this site for a couple months trying to determine what direction I want to go gear wise. I'll let you know what I'm doing right now, and where I'm leaning towards going. This is more of a low end approach than the other opinions that have been mentioned so far, as I'm working with a limited budget.

My current gigs consist of archiving a weekly open jam, a band that plays out 2-4 times a month (all smaller bar/club gigs) and a couple festivals a year where I record one of the smaller stages (10-12 bands playing 80 minute sets). What I'm mainly looking for is a 16-24 track bit box to capture recordings and quickly be able to transfer the files into a computer to do post work.

My present setup consists of a Korg D1200mkii, which only gives me 4 tracks for recording (limiting me to sbd/aud matrix mixes), and takes forever to export files into my dell studio laptop. I use Reaper to mix/edit/"master" and burn CD's or upload to the internet. Here is a link to the latest project I've been working on for a glimpse of what I'm getting quality wise with this setup. The Kings 2009-12-11 Southwick Inn, Southwick MA - Playlist - DivShare

My remaining budget is around $2000, but I also need to purchase a decent set of monitor speakers for mixing, making my budget that much smaller.

I've pretty much ruled out recording to a laptop. With my budget this seems like the least reliable option (especially seeing I'm using a Dell).

My next option would be moving towards buying a HD unit like the HD24 Edwin mentioned. To do this would require me either finding another grand or so (which would delay a purchase), as I think right now my monitor speakers are my weakest link. This seems like the best way for me to go UNLESS...

The zoom R16 actually works (I have more concerns the more I read about it here on GS). I'm most in love with the following options, that I haven't been able to find at any price point.

-8 track recording (16 if 2 are linked together) onto SD cards, which seems to be the most reliable recording option out there right now. (I have no evidence about the truth of that last statement, but it seems logical - am I wrong?)
-Option to run on batteries!! This would have been great when I was recording a festival in the woods this summer and we were having major power issues.

And to top it all off they cost $400 a pop. It sounds too good to be true, which is why I'm hesitant. If these things cost $899 a pop I would have bought one already (I hope samson doesn't see that).

So what should I do? Sit tight and wait to buy a HD recorder? I would love to hear some opinions, or maybe some options I haven't uncovered yet. In the meantime I might grab one of the R16's and play around with it. If it works well I'll buy another one.

Sorry again if I'm hijacking a thread, I just thought my two cents might open this discussion up a little bit.

You can ,rent when you need more gear. If you want to do everything ITB then I'd go for an HD24XR. There are some good priced used ones here. You will need a mixer to monitor the inputs as well. A cheap Mackie would work. Mackie HR824/624's are going pretty cheap as well. If you don't mind buying used, you can almost get what you need for $2000-$3000. Or get the Studiolive which people are raving for as a budget do all mixer/recorder. I personally like to go with the modular setup with separate components. You can always add external preamps to the HD24.

[GuelahPapyrus]

Originally Posted by valleysound

You can ,rent when you need more gear. If you want to do everything ITB then I'd go for an HD24XR. There are some good priced used ones here. You will need a mixer to monitor the inputs as well. A cheap Mackie would work. Mackie HR824/624's are going pretty cheap as well. If you don't mind buying used, you can almost get what you need for $2000-$3000. Or get the Studiolive which people are raving for as a budget do all mixer/recorder. I personally like to go with the modular setup with separate components. You can always add external preamps to the HD24.

Thanks Paul for the info and BF for being cool.

I have decided to go the HD24/24XR route. This will satisfy my needs in the present, and will still be a useful piece of gear when I'm in a position to upgrade.

I'm only 4 months into multi-track live recording (although I'm a drummer so I've played around on my Korg a bunch over the couple years I've owned it), but I've become addicted and I'm quickly becoming a gear slut.

Right now I'm most frustrated by my 4 track limitations (I would like at least 8 so I can learn how to mix). You can also see in my previous post my nearly non-existent "gear" list. The following question is more of methodology.

Am I better off investing in mics, pre's, and monitors while staying with 4 tracks for right now? For this recording (The Kings 2009-12-11 Southwick Inn, Southwick MA - Playlist - DivShare) I used 2 channels from the soundboard and an AT822 placed on stage in a small room with good acoustics. Only vocals, keys and guitars were going through the PA. Bass and drums weren't miked.

I'm thinking two quality mic/pre's would do wonders for my overall sound, but my budget will allow me to do only one or the other for right now.

So what's my best rout? Mics and pre's first, or HD24 first?