Shotgun mics for video - what to buy

[tojotamies]

I'm a starting film (actually video) maker and I need to buy some sound equipment for myself and my crew. As it happens, I know very little about mics. I would need to buy a good shotgun mic for on-set-recording costing less than 1500 euros, preferably less than 1000 euros. The local dealer is not an expert on these, so I would need your advice.

At the moment, I have found 3 options:
Rode NTG-2, AKG C480B + CK69, Sennheiser MKH 418-S.
Which one would be best for the money, or is there any other good options?

Rode NTG-2 seems to be dangerously cheap (250e), but then again it has had good reviews (http://www.rode.com.au/downloads/NTG...-AuMed_UK.pdf).

AKG option is quite expensive and Sennheiser even more expesive. I could get 2 NTG-2s, booms and windshields for them with the price of one Sennheiser! Do I even need a stereo mic in dialog recording? Which one would a pro choose?

Please, comment freely!

[Jim vanBergen]

The mics the pro's use are almost exclusively Sennheisser- MKH60 and MKH70 are the mics of choice. Before these were made, 816 and 416s were the mic of choice and the 416 is the STANDARD by which all things are measured for film & TV dialogue for shotguns, while the other standard is Schoeps CMC5/MK4, which is also serious investment. You don't HAVE to go in this direction, especially if you are just doing dialogue for indy productions.

Poor man's 416: Senn K3U/ME80 short shotgun capsule. These can be had quite inexpensively used; I bought my last PAIR for $350 USD. These have been used worldwide for sometime.

Given all that, if I were buying NEW gear and could not afford Sennheisser, I'd go with the RODE though I have not heard them personally, I just think their mic designs are well thought out. Stay away from the Audio-Technica shotgun mics, I have several of these and they just suck in terms of audio quality. You can always go with the AKG 390 preamp and shotgun capsule, but it's not the same quality.

You should spend more on a decent field mixer and get several mics that can be flexible. Two Rode shotguns with windscreens is a good start for a kit, but it's only a start. You also need a boompole, a zeppelin for outdoor work, cable, cans, headphone amps, and ambient mics like PZMs that can gather good ambient sound... so good luck in your decisions. Do you have a sound guy who is in charge of your day to day work? Someone who had done production sound experience is going to make your life MUCH easier.

I hope these thoughts help.

[fifthcircle]

Just announced today:

http://reddingaudio.com/schoeps/cmit5u.php

Could be interesting- I look forward to seeing how accepted by the film community.

--Ben

[DeadPoet]

From the guys that brought europe the chinese ribbon:

http://www.thomann.de/the_tbone_em_9600_prodinfo.html
http://www.thomann.de/the_tbone_em9900_prodinfo.html


€69 and €99 for a hypercardioid resp. supercardioid ...


Don't know for the sound, but if they compare to the big brands like their ribbon compares to others you'll be set for *very* little money.


Herwig

[tojotamies]

Thanks for all the answers,

they have been _extremely_ useful! I guess I will consider the Sennheiser shotguns quite seriously and try to get them for testing.

Jim vanBergen mentioned the field mixer. This is something that I was also prepared to get, but don't have any proir knowledge about them. Is there a cheap "standard" field mixer that I could buy? Do I need one for each mic/soundman?

Should I also look into wireless transmitters or recoding devices (minidisc etc.) for the soundman? The cables are a bit difficult on the set.

Which would you recommend, a transmitter / receiver system (both on batteries of course) OR a separate, portable recording device for each mic? What kind (should be well under 500 e)?

My camera has XLR inputs, so I can use it as a recording device, but it is always easier not to have any extra stuff connected to the camera, as you might know...


Cheers,
tojotamies

[Phil Cibley]

Audio Technica also makes a low cost shotgun mic. The safest bet would be
a Sennheiser. They have name recognition. Just like in the studio world, everyone
knows Shure and EV, in the film world everyone knows Sennheiser. Never underestimate the importance of pleasing people who don't have a wide knowledge of what's out there.

[PlugHead]

Originally Posted by tojotamies

Thanks for all the answers,

they have been _extremely_ useful! I guess I will consider the Sennheiser shotguns quite seriously and try to get them for testing.

Jim vanBergen mentioned the field mixer. This is something that I was also prepared to get, but don't have any proir knowledge about them. Is there a cheap "standard" field mixer that I could buy? Do I need one for each mic/soundman?

Should I also look into wireless transmitters or recoding devices (minidisc etc.) for the soundman? The cables are a bit difficult on the set.

Which would you recommend, a transmitter / receiver system (both on batteries of course) OR a separate, portable recording device for each mic? What kind (should be well under 500 e)?

My camera has XLR inputs, so I can use it as a recording device, but it is always easier not to have any extra stuff connected to the camera, as you might know...


Cheers,
tojotamies

FWIW,

It really depends on your budget: are you the cameraman/producer? Do you have a dedicated soundman with you? If yes to both, then I would say the soundman/boom pole operator should be supplying the sound kit, not you. If in fact you need to supply the sound kit, there's more than a few options, but quality is expensive. Your original budget was 1000-1500 euros, and that's barely enough to get a good shotgun mic and boom pole, without a suspension and sock: you can go cheaper, but is really a poor investment, as you'll be buying better stuff as soon as you hear the difference in quality...

As for field mixers - a cheap and pretty standard 3 channel mixer is the Shure33 model - should be had for little bread, and is a bit noisy by modern standards, but unless you're planning on recording the sound of leaves fall, it'll do the job. Next to that, I'd recommend the Sound Devices 302 - a flexible, good sounding unit, and is bulletproof. It should be right around your budget - for just the mixer!

Wireless mics and feeds are indespensible to clearing clutter on the set, and keeping the camera and sound dep't clear of tangles re: cabling, but - this is a VERY expensive cost, and will eat your earning faster than anything. Nothing under a thousand Euros is going to do ANYTHING to make better sound for your productions. I would highly suggest renting this kind of kit, as 5k would barely get you in the door with quality TX/RX, lav. mics, wireless feed to the camera(s). You can do it cheaper, but you will never forgive yourself - trust me - I know!

best with it!

[Jim vanBergen]

The problem with the standards, is they are the opposite end of the spectrum. The most common field mixers are Shure and Cooper; the Shure is available in mono and stereo and is most common; you can find a lot of them used as well. They are a little noisy and are an OK utility preamp but it stops there. The Cooper is expensive but stunning, great electonics and mic pre's. Sound Devices also makes a good two-channel pre/mixer with a slate tone that solves this problem well in a good cost-effective way.

Whether you need RF is up to what you are shooting. Most folks who use more than 2 lav mics (I'd look at Sennheiser G2 stuff with MKE-2 lav elements) end up with Cooper mixers, four lavs, a boompole and some ambient mics (think NYPD Blue, CSI, etc) but this is EXPENSIVE and serious. For the lower end, a pair of lavs, two shotguns, a PZM and couple of Shure 64 or E/V 635s would be good.

Hope this helps!

Jim

[tojotamies]

OK, thanks again for the anwers. I have looked around (the net), and I am currently considering a set like this:

Sennheiser K6 + ME66, 500e
Sennheiser K6 + ME67, 500e
2 x Boom, 200e
Rycote Full Windshied set, 700e
Rycote Modular Suspension, 250e
Rolls MX422 Field Mixer, 450e
2 x Azden 51XT Plugin transmitter, 400e
Azden 200UPR Dual Channel Receiver, 380e
Marantz PMD-660K - Portable Compact Flash Digital Recorder ENG Kit, 600e

So the budget has grown a bit...

Anything you would NOT buy or have bad experieces with?
Most of these can be found from http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Cheers,
tojotamies

[ctms777]

A few tips;

-Try the DPA windscreen, the lighter your boom the better.
-Buy all cables you'll ever need and a nice bag to put them in.
-Buy good and light Lithium Batteries.
-Wireless can suddenly stop working and you'll never know why, so, to minimise but not rule out surprises buy the best you can afford
-That last rule goes for everything, in the studio you can make up excuses when your cheap chinese mic stops working, on a set you cannot. Only buy products that you know you can depend upon, I'd rather depend on Sennheiser then on Rode or Samson, although most of the time these will work fine too. Just not on that very important take.