Tascam DV RA1000HD vs Korg MR2000S as a backup & DSD recorder

[Thor]

I'm considering either a Tascam DV RA1000HD or a Korg MR2000S as a PCM and DSD backup recorder for location work (the primary signal being captured to either 1/4" tape or a laptop computer rig).

From what I can see based on specs and reviews, the Tascam is a bigger unit, has a built in burner (which it can record to), as well as EQ, compressor (multiband, wow ) and other simple editing and mastering 'features'. 60GB hard disk. Minnetonka Disc Welder Bronze for working with the DSD.

The Korg is a bit smaller, omits the burner and extra processing, but allows multiple units to be chained for more channels. 80GB hard disk. Their own app for DSD conversion and post processing.

Both cost about the same, $2000.

Right now we're doing stereo only, but I would very much like to add 5.1 capability as soon as possible. The multibox sync feature of the Korg sounds pretty nice for that, we could buy 3 and run a DSD capture in 5.1. I've seen that Desono (née Genex) has the GX9000 DSD recorder with 8 tracks for €6520 (US$9530), which is much more than 3 Korgs.

Does anyone know if multiple Tascams can be linked for more channels, like the Korg?

Has anyone actually used on (or both, ideally) of these units and can comment on build quality, ease of use, niceties for location work, and sonics?

Cheers,
Thor

[reynaud]

the advantage the DV-RA1000HD has over the Korg is the SDIF-3 input/output to use external conversion. Now, if only Korg added an SDIF-3 input to the MR2000S, it would be a really good option for multichannel DSD.

if you want to do multichannel DSD work then the Tascam is not an option as there seems to be no method of syncing multiple units, short of manually syncing audio output in your workstation. it's a pity Tascam discontinued the DS-D98 which is great for multichannel DSD work (and my current solution but I am leaning towards purchasing three MR2000S units for the future).

For stereo DSD work, I have used both the Korg MR2000S and the MR1000, and they are great, solid units (but the MR1000 is better with the Bussman Audio mods).

Korg's Audiogate software is fantastic, my main concern is the lack of good and accurate metering but its DSD->PCM conversion is very good, no complaints.

I haven't used the Korgs for PCM work, so I have no idea how they perform there.

cheers,
Reynaud

[Plush]

I can comment on the two boxes since we have and use both here.

We implement the Tascam usually with a AMS-Neve 1073 DPD DSD converter. It is hooked up to the Tascam via bnc SDIF format. It works very well and the Tascam converters for d/a (dsd format) are good. We have had problems with the disc stopping playing and stopping recording on our Tascam, but ours is the older version without the hard disk.

We hail the KORG implementation here since its careful design was done by the Professor that invented DSD. Sound is outstanding and converters on the 1000 box are also very good. Playing back from the unit is the only easy way to play back real DSD. Conveniently this can be done through your hi-fi with the RCA (cinch) outputs or from balanced outs on the box.

The KORG Audiogate software continues to evolve and is sophisticated. It offers very good conversion from DSD to PCM, processing the stream in your computer. It is a good sample rate converter soft as well.

Although I have not tried it, the latest version of Audiogate will create a "DSD disc" on a DVD that one can play back on Sony VAIO computers and *some* universal players.
This is the first time that Sony has allowed the engineer to create a disc with native DSD on it. It is NOT in the SACD format.

I have even seen that this month some record companies are releasing DSD material in a file format that is made to be played back on KORG DSD units.


So, in summary, the KORG allows you to play back DSD on the unit itself and Tascam allows you to play back a DSD disc and also to send a DSD physical format to someone.

[Dave Ferris]

I have a friend who used the Korg to record his Steinway B for solo jazz recordings. The sound was a tad harsh which could be maybe be attributed his Millennia HV-3, also could be his B needed to be voiced a little smoother.

I ended up getting the Tascam, DV-RA1000HD and had Jim Williams/Audio Upgrades mod the A/D-D/A, it cost me around $230. Bad thing is I can't compare what it sounded like before Jim did his thing-I had the recorder shipped directly to him new. Regardless the Tascam sounds outstanding I think. I had a Cranesong Spider for a few months and to tell the truth I actually thought the Tascam A/D sounded more airy and open-at least for solo piano with my DPA 4011s.

The bad-it is not a reliable machine at all. I've had numerous problems with the XLR outputs not working. Had it fixed once at Tascam and now a few years later, they're out again and of course the work they did is out of warranty. So just using the RCA outs as I'm too cheap and don't feeling like hassling with it.

But great sound
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/do...herbie-hancock

[Thor]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm thinking that the recorder will serve primarily as backup to the session in question, and that using DSD is a bonus and for archival copies/backups.

Meaning we'll get our PCM/analogue take, with a DSD bonus backup. That might make it easier to release several formats as well, for those wanting a SACD release.

I have an 8 track DSD editing workstation on loan, as well as 8 channels of DSD conversion, although I wasn't planning on relying on that for conversion, more for editing and authoring. So I was hoping to use the built in converters (sans mods), and from all accounts both machines have excellent sounding conversion. Since this is for location work, the less I have to carry (i.e. external DSD converter, DAW), the better.

The basic setup is 2-8 mics (depending on stereo/5.1/both) into either a portable 1/4" R2R or a Sonic Studio Model 305 (i.e. Metric Halo ULN-8) and to laptop computer. The Tascam or Korg would get a line level split feed as a DSD backup recorder, initially stereo only as we only have budget for one. Pretty much all of this fits into a small padded gig bag, which is how I'd like to keep it.

As far as I can tell the MR1000 won't sync several units, while the MR2000 will. That might not be a problem as by the time we can afford 4 units for 8 tracks of DSD, Korg will probably have released a native 8 track model.

What about moving files to/from a computer from the units (Tascam & Korg). Is it a simple, straightforward operation? Is a DSD take just a data file, like a wav or aiff? I don't know a lot about the format, f.x. is it interleaved, does it support multichannel audio, etc etc.

If a client brings in a DSD take, is this something I could dump into one of these units? I would expect that in most cases I'd want to work from the DSD editing DAW, but am just asking anyway.

Cheers,
Thor

[reynaud]

It is best to capture in the DSDIFF file format (read the DSDIFF 1.5 Specification PDF and the DSDIFF Recommended Usage PDF), as it is the common format between authoring systems. DSDIFF files can be stereo or 5/6 channel interleaved.

Moving DSDIFF files between the Korg and OS X is a drag-drop operation since the device mounts as an external drive (the same applies to moving files on to the device). If clients provide DSDIFF files, you can load them in to AudioGate without the device attached (since you "authorise" the software by attaching the device when first launching the software) and then repurpose from there.

The Korg also records in DSF (DSD Stream File which is supported by Sony VAIOs and the pre-installed SonicStage Mastering Studio software) and WSD (Wideband Single-bit Data). Note that neither the Weiss Saracon software nor the DSD converter in soundBlade offer support for these file formats.

Which DSD editor do you have on loan?

cheers,
Reynaud

[hughesmr]

As a quick side note, I don't advise doing conversion using Audiogate with files from a USB-connected drive (such as the MR1000 or 2000). I've tried and occasionally get disturbances (e.g. spikes) in the converted PCM file. Move the DSD files to the Audiogate-resident drive first, then convert.

[bde]

I'm wondering which of these 2 has a better stock a/d conversion and is more preferrable for synching with an external a/d through digital in?

Any opinions?

Thanks!

[Elk]

Originally Posted by hughesmr

I've tried and occasionally get disturbances (e.g. spikes) in the converted PCM file.

The latest version of AudioGate addresses a bug where spikes are created in converted files. Perhaps this update solves this specific problem.

[TankT34]

Hi
bumping this thread as I'm also interested to know which of these units have better stock AD conversion
any comments?

Originally Posted by bde

I'm wondering which of these 2 has a better stock a/d conversion and is more preferrable for synching with an external a/d through digital in?

Any opinions?

Thanks!

[_ben]

bump

[Jim Williams]

Besides the Tascam's I rebuilt a MR2k for Todd Garfinkle of MA Records in Japan.

I found the Korg a bit cloudy. There are some very low end opamps used from JRC, with a switching function. There are no pin compatible replacements and that low end opamp, not designed for audio is a real road block. The Korg converter I believe was made for them by Sony, it's also not as revealing as the BurrBrown PCM/DSD4202 ADC used by Tascam.