8 channel mic pre for location rig -your thoughts?

zakco · 3rd October 2005, 02:29 AM

Hello all,

I know this has been discussed before so forgive me.....

I am putting together a location rig with my new RADAR 24

and I will be needing an additional 8 mic preamps. I currently own 4 channels of John Hardy M1, 2 channels of API 512, and a 2 channel Great River MP2-NV. I'd like another 8 channels to use as utility preamps when I run out of the previously mentioned 8. This will give me 16 channels which will be enough 99% of the time. When I need a full 24 channels I will rent/beg/borrow as necessary.

I'd love to purchase something exotic, but unfortunately my budget is pretty much shot after upgrading/accessorising the RADAR. My budget is about $1500-2000.00 USD max. Some options that I've thought of:

ATI 8mx2 (used) - This would be my first choice, but I can't seem to find one....anyone know of one for sale within my budget?

True Systems precision8 (used) - I've never heard these, but they are readily available....

CLM Dynamicsn DB8000S - Never heard them....any opinions?

After that it seems like a huge step up/down in price/quality....are there any other 8 channel units in the $1500-2000.00 range (used) that I'm not aware of?

Thanks,

-Zak

henryrobinett · 3rd October 2005, 02:31 AM

May not fit your budget but I use the Millennia HV-3D 8 channel. I love it. I append it with a Millennia Quad.

Johns · 3rd October 2005, 02:55 AM

The True Precision 8 is a very usable pre for a reasonable price.

lucey · 3rd October 2005, 05:12 AM

You could try contacting Live Wire Remote in Toronto, Doug McClement. He has a rack of the ATIs and may be willing to sell one if he's upgrading soon.

Not sure they're for sale but it's a thought...

Sounds Great · 3rd October 2005, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

May not fit your budget but I use the Millennia HV-3D 8 channel. I love it. I append it with a Millennia Quad.

Gotta second the HV-3D 8. Yeah it cost about a grand more than you were thinking, but you've got an investment in a top of the line piece. I bought one a couple of years ago and I could still sell it for what I paid. If I ever had too..

Gerax · 3rd October 2005, 01:55 PM

This may come a bit strange considering the price tag, but I've heard several good things about the Audient ASP8: clean, uncolored and affordable; on paper it seems to have all the right things in the right places (48V, phase, pad etc...). They say the preamp is the same design of those in their consoles...it also has an optional AD card with WC and ADAT/AES out.

Hope this helps

L.G.

AlexLakis · 3rd October 2005, 06:58 PM

Yeah, the True Precision 8 is pretty good. Nothing too exciting, but definately quality, and worth the money.

David R. · 3rd October 2005, 10:04 PM

CLM Dynamics is great!!!
Limiters on each channel, clean sound, tons of headroom, loves ribbon mics, 3 outputs per channel, great led meters.

I have been raving about mine for a couple of years.

Beauarts · 3rd October 2005, 10:12 PM

JLM makes an 8 channel unit that comes with limiting on each channel. I have no experience with them but I've been curious about them. Seems like it would fit your bill.

http://www.jlmaudio.com/8packoftrans.htm

ImJohn · 3rd October 2005, 10:35 PM

I'd suggest a Presonus M80. New they are about $1800 street but used ones go from $800 to $1200 or so on Ebay. I think they are quite good sounding preamps, especially for the money. ( and I own Hardy and Martech stuff so i have experience with high end stuff )

For live use in particular I think you'll find the features on the M80 to come in handy, like the inserts on every channel and the stereo mix buss.

More info here : http://www.presonus.com/m80.html

Best of luck!

sunflute · 4th October 2005, 02:14 AM

Hello,

I have a Millennia Quad Mic preamp in mint condition that's up on Ebay.
Auction ends in a day or so, and it's priced fairly.
Take a look at it if you like...

Millennia Quad Preamp on Ebay

zakco · 4th October 2005, 02:15 AM

Thanks for all the replies and advice.
I've got a possible lead on a used 8mx2 which I hope will pan out....If I cant locate an ATI in my budget I'll check some of the other units mentioned.

The ones that have caught my interest are the True Systems and the Audient.
I've heard presonus pres and I think they're a little too colored for what I'm after.

For those that have tried the CLM preamps, how do they sound...transparent or colored? I'm planning on using these primarily for acoustic location recording, so I'm leaning toward the Millennia/ATI/True flavor....

Thanks again,

-Z-

zakco · 4th October 2005, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunflute

Hello,

I have a Millennia Quad Mic preamp in mint condition that's up on Ebay.
Auction ends in a day or so, and it's priced fairly.
Take a look at it if you like...

Millennia Quad Preamp on Ebay

yeah, I've been watching that and it's a good deal, but unfortunately I really do need 8 channels for $2000.00 or less....

-Z-

sunflute · 4th October 2005, 02:35 AM

Thanks for looking. Wow, It would be hard to find 8 channels of Millennia quality for under $2000 I think. Good Luck.

cletus · 4th October 2005, 02:41 AM

If I were in your position right now and had a little time on my hands to build some nice pre's, this is what I'd be going for:

http://www.seventhcirclestudios.com/SCA/SCA.htm

Eight channels of the C84 ( similar to Millenia ) can be had for around 2 grand, just got to build em. Just a thought!

zakco · 4th October 2005, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunflute

Thanks for looking. Wow, It would be hard to find 8 channels of Millennia quality for under $2000 I think. Good Luck.

whoah...I didn't mean to suggest that....(as nice as it would be)....which is why I haven't included Millennia as an option here. The ATI and True Systems units can both occasionaly be found for under $2000.00 used. The audient sells for less than that new.

Good luck with your auction!

-Z-

dolo · 4th October 2005, 03:18 AM

how about the seventh circle c84 option? of course you would have to build then yourself.

thats $1,493.00 with the discount. you probably can mix 4 c84 with 4 of another model they offer for more versatility and still stay under $2k

Jim vanBergen · 4th October 2005, 03:21 AM

I have similar needs to yours. My expensive pre's: Aurora, Valvotronic, and 8 ch of Earthworks 1024 (sound identical to HV3B's in blind testing- simply amazing and super, super accurate). I sometimes rent Grace and Millenias when I need 'em. My "Middle of the road": Manley, Orban, Trident. My cheap pre's: Presonus M80s and DigiMax (these are bargain basement) as well as a bunch of ART dual tube stage mic preamps. With these I run the gamut from classical music to opera to rock and jazz. The key is knowing what will sound good where (like the old '57) and when you need to spend some $$ on some good stuff to make it worth your while. The preamp on your snare bottom ain't gonna be a 1073 unless you demand it, you know what I mean?

I consider the ATI's pretty colored and the Precision 8 very unflattering as a preamp. I liked their specs but when I heard them- yuck! NOT a place to spend thousands of dollars. The M80 is a great bargain for an everyday 'whatever' pre (you can get SOME color from them) But I agree with you that in general I think the ATI is a better every day go-to preamp that you'll appreciate if you're not looking for superb accuracy. The ATI is NOT this. But maybe you'll get a good price from David Strang at PRG Audio (used to be ProMix/Electrotec) they have a bunch of these in superb condition. (914-668-8886, tell him Jim van Bergen suggested you call.)

I still think the Earthworks 1024, Millenia HV-3B, and Grace 801 are the best in class for eight-channel preamps under 5k. A full rack of real ATI preamps, or one of the recent nice-sounding knockoffs, would be an excellent choice if you only want to do pop or rock music. But let us know what you decide to do!

peace-

JvB

ImJohn · 4th October 2005, 03:21 AM

How about 4 x Symetrix 302 pres? They are well made and good sounding, very neutral. $299 list and street is at least $255 or less:
http://www.symetrixaudio.com/index.p...ow1=&Show2=253

A couple other thoughts for ya on stuff I haven't used :

How about the Presonus Digimax series? They should be less colored than the M80 ( they don't have transformers ) The LT version is. Around $800 new, $500 to $700 used.

2 x Sytek MPX4AII pres ( total 8 channels in two rack spaces for just under $2000, some times about $800 each on ebay )
http://www.sytek-audio-systems.com/p.../preamps/mpx4/

4 x FMR pres. Each is a 1/3 rack 2 channel unit for just under $500.
http://www.mercenary.com/fmrrnmp.html

Best of luck!

GilWave · 4th October 2005, 03:52 AM

CLM Dynaimc made a very nice mic pre. Not enough of you bought them nor their very cool Expounder EQ, so they have gone out of business.

Luckily, you can still source an 8 channel mic pre from your okd pal Gil, and STILL have 8 slots left for EQs, Distressors, Summinmg, and more.

I am speaking of course, of Tonelux and the MP1.

Come have a listen at AES, booth 436.

{disengage shameless plug}

-gil

zakco · 4th October 2005, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

I consider the ATI's pretty colored and the Precision 8 very unflattering as a preamp. I liked their specs but when I heard them- yuck! NOT a place to spend thousands of dollars. The M80 is a great bargain for an everyday 'whatever' pre (you can get SOME color from them) But I agree with you that in general I think the ATI is a better every day go-to preamp that you'll appreciate if you're not looking for superb accuracy. The ATI is NOT this.

Hmmm.....I am looking for something relatively accurate. I already own 8 channels of colored pres. I was under the impression that the ATIs were reasonably uncolored compared to say an API or Neve design.....

Quote:

But maybe you'll get a good price from David Strang at PRG Audio (used to be ProMix/Electrotec) they have a bunch of these in superb condition. (914-668-8886, tell him Jim van Bergen suggested you call.)

Thanks for the tip! I will call him tomorrow....

dolo · 4th October 2005, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakco

Hmmm.....I am looking for something relatively accurate. I already own 8 channels of colored pres. I was under the impression that the ATIs were reasonably uncolored compared to say an API or Neve design.....

therefore...

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventh circle's audio website

The most "neutral" sounding module, the C84 is a kit version of one of the most popular transformerless preamp circuits. The C84 uses a combination of discrete transistors and IC amplifiers to deliver a clean, uncolored version of your source signal.

C84KF Full Kit $149ea plus power suppy and chassis.

sounds like what you're looking for.

zakco · 4th October 2005, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dolo

therefore...

sounds like what you're looking for.

Well....I must confess...my DIY electronic skills are not really up to snuff....OK I admit it, I don't know sweet fork all about it. I am intrigued by the concept, but I can't help but think that my first DIY project should be something a tad simpler than a 8 channel preamp that I will rely on for location gigs where my professional reputation is riding on every detail.....

But yes, the 7th circle kits are a great value by the looks of it.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone here have personal experience with the SCA kits?
How do they compare sonically to the other options I've mentioned.

I'm also thinking seriously about the Sytek option that ImJohn mentioned. They are exactly in my budget and from the description, they appear to be the type of flavor I'm looking for. Again, any personal experience with these?

Thanks everyone for your enthusiastic input....sorry if I seem a little scattered....gawd I can't wait until my remote rig is finally together and ready to work....It's been quite a ride since I started planning/shopping. I've just about lost my mind a few times. The RADAR showed up damaged from shipping but thankfully fedex agreed without protest to pay for a complete repair and system test....the fellows at iZ tech were VERY helpful in getting everything sorted out, as was David Sawchuck (a local BC RADAR rep).

I just have a few details to sort out:

8 channel preamp (as you all know....)
Racks (RADAR / preamps /processing / monitor mixer)
24 channel split snake (I'm sure you'll all here about this one....

This is a great forum, I can't believe all the info that is available around here.

-Z-

dolo · 4th October 2005, 06:41 AM

i doubt you'll find any one that will say anything bad about seventh circle's quality and value.

zakco · 4th October 2005, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dolo

i doubt you'll find any one that will say anything bad about seventh circle's quality and value.

Which modules have you heard?

-Z-

ImJohn · 4th October 2005, 06:55 AM

hey, I forgot about Benchmark Media :

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/micpre/mps400-420/

At $1395 list for 4 channels, it would put you over budget to get two, unless you can find a discount somewhere. ( seems rare on Benchmark stuff ) Maybe get one of these and then one Sytek for variety. Plus I think the Benchmark might impress some classical / chamber clients.

ImJohn · 4th October 2005, 06:58 AM

Whoops, I think the power supply may be a seperate item for $500 but I'm not positive :
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/micpre/ps2000/index.html

ImJohn · 4th October 2005, 07:00 AM

LOL! Nope, never mind, power supply is included! I better go to bed!

dynamo · 4th October 2005, 02:23 PM

Just 6....but highly on my list and sure to be considered the new JMP-6:
http://www.forsselltech.com/index.html.
Anybody tried this ? The price is great too!

BobSchwenkler · 4th October 2005, 07:59 PM

Seventh Circle kits would be a great way to go. They are quality units, and having a more visceral understanding of what is actually inside your equipment is not a bad thing. They are not difficult IME. I am fairly technically inclined, but started on them with zero soldering experience. I am comfortable in my ability to learn quickly and put these things together well. I am also comfortable that my reputation is riding on them. (If you want to talk about session killers let's talk about computers, which I am not comfortable with my reputation riding upon)

If you think about all the overhead that goes into the price on other high end pre amps, the parts in them are probably worth half the retail price (more or less). If 7th Circle were being sold by a company producing them as units they would be much more expensive (although of course price would be no indication of sound quality, b

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3rd October 2005, 02:29 AM	#1
zakco Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 918	8 channel mic pre for location rig -your thoughts? Hello all, I know this has been discussed before so forgive me..... I am putting together a location rig with my new RADAR 24 and I will be needing an additional 8 mic preamps. I currently own 4 channels of John Hardy M1, 2 channels of API 512, and a 2 channel Great River MP2-NV. I'd like another 8 channels to use as utility preamps when I run out of the previously mentioned 8. This will give me 16 channels which will be enough 99% of the time. When I need a full 24 channels I will rent/beg/borrow as necessary. I'd love to purchase something exotic, but unfortunately my budget is pretty much shot after upgrading/accessorising the RADAR. My budget is about $1500-2000.00 USD max. Some options that I've thought of: ATI 8mx2 (used) - This would be my first choice, but I can't seem to find one....anyone know of one for sale within my budget? True Systems precision8 (used) - I've never heard these, but they are readily available.... CLM Dynamicsn DB8000S - Never heard them....any opinions? After that it seems like a huge step up/down in price/quality....are there any other 8 channel units in the $1500-2000.00 range (used) that I'm not aware of? Thanks, -Zak __________________ http://www.woodshoprecording.com

3rd October 2005, 02:31 AM	#2
henryrobinett Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Sacramento Posts: 5,851	May not fit your budget but I use the Millennia HV-3D 8 channel. I love it. I append it with a Millennia Quad. __________________ All the best, Henry Robinett

3rd October 2005, 05:12 AM	#4
lucey Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 9,851	You could try contacting Live Wire Remote in Toronto, Doug McClement. He has a rack of the ATIs and may be willing to sell one if he's upgrading soon. Not sure they're for sale but it's a thought... __________________ Brian Lucey Magic Garden Mastering "beauty resists capture" "the economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the ecology" - unknown

3rd October 2005, 01:55 PM	#6
Gerax Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Prato, Italy Posts: 446	This may come a bit strange considering the price tag, but I've heard several good things about the Audient ASP8: clean, uncolored and affordable; on paper it seems to have all the right things in the right places (48V, phase, pad etc...). They say the preamp is the same design of those in their consoles...it also has an optional AD card with WC and ADAT/AES out. Hope this helps L.G. __________________ Lorenzo Gerace L'Acquario Recording & Post Mobile Recording, Editing, Mixing Prato (PO) Italy info@acquariorecording.it http://www.macchinamagnetica.com

3rd October 2005, 02:55 AM	#3
Johns Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: CT Posts: 357	The True Precision 8 is a very usable pre for a reasonable price.

3rd October 2005, 06:58 PM	#7
AlexLakis Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Annapolis, MD/L.A. Posts: 3,612	Yeah, the True Precision 8 is pretty good. Nothing too exciting, but definately quality, and worth the money.

3rd October 2005, 10:04 PM	#8
David R. Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Left Coast, and don't call it 'Frisco Posts: 1,590	CLM Dynamics is great!!! Limiters on each channel, clean sound, tons of headroom, loves ribbon mics, 3 outputs per channel, great led meters. I have been raving about mine for a couple of years. __________________ -David R. "An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way." - C. Bukowski

3rd October 2005, 10:12 PM	#9
Beauarts Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 346	JLM makes an 8 channel unit that comes with limiting on each channel. I have no experience with them but I've been curious about them. Seems like it would fit your bill. http://www.jlmaudio.com/8packoftrans.htm

3rd October 2005, 10:35 PM	#10
ImJohn Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: WA USA Posts: 1,327	I'd suggest a Presonus M80. New they are about $1800 street but used ones go from $800 to $1200 or so on Ebay. I think they are quite good sounding preamps, especially for the money. ( and I own Hardy and Martech stuff so i have experience with high end stuff ) For live use in particular I think you'll find the features on the M80 to come in handy, like the inserts on every channel and the stereo mix buss. More info here : http://www.presonus.com/m80.html Best of luck! __________________ John L Rice

4th October 2005, 02:14 AM	#11
sunflute Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New York Posts: 297	Millennia Media Quad Mic preamp Hello, I have a Millennia Quad Mic preamp in mint condition that's up on Ebay. Auction ends in a day or so, and it's priced fairly. Take a look at it if you like... Millennia Quad Preamp on Ebay __________________ Sunflute

4th October 2005, 02:15 AM	#12
zakco Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 918	Thanks for all the replies and advice. I've got a possible lead on a used 8mx2 which I hope will pan out....If I cant locate an ATI in my budget I'll check some of the other units mentioned. The ones that have caught my interest are the True Systems and the Audient. I've heard presonus pres and I think they're a little too colored for what I'm after. For those that have tried the CLM preamps, how do they sound...transparent or colored? I'm planning on using these primarily for acoustic location recording, so I'm leaning toward the Millennia/ATI/True flavor.... Thanks again, -Z- __________________ http://www.woodshoprecording.com

4th October 2005, 02:35 AM	#14
sunflute Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New York Posts: 297	RE: Millennia Media Quad Mic preamp Thanks for looking. Wow, It would be hard to find 8 channels of Millennia quality for under $2000 I think. Good Luck. __________________ Sunflute

4th October 2005, 02:41 AM	#15
cletus Gear addict Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 349	If I were in your position right now and had a little time on my hands to build some nice pre's, this is what I'd be going for: http://www.seventhcirclestudios.com/SCA/SCA.htm Eight channels of the C84 ( similar to Millenia ) can be had for around 2 grand, just got to build em. Just a thought!

4th October 2005, 03:18 AM	#17
dolo Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Weehawken, NJ Posts: 492	how about the seventh circle c84 option? of course you would have to build then yourself. thats $1,493.00 with the discount. you probably can mix 4 c84 with 4 of another model they offer for more versatility and still stay under $2k

4th October 2005, 03:21 AM	#18
Jim vanBergen Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New York Friggin' City Posts: 2,286	Dump the Precision, stay with ATI I have similar needs to yours. My expensive pre's: Aurora, Valvotronic, and 8 ch of Earthworks 1024 (sound identical to HV3B's in blind testing- simply amazing and super, super accurate). I sometimes rent Grace and Millenias when I need 'em. My "Middle of the road": Manley, Orban, Trident. My cheap pre's: Presonus M80s and DigiMax (these are bargain basement) as well as a bunch of ART dual tube stage mic preamps. With these I run the gamut from classical music to opera to rock and jazz. The key is knowing what will sound good where (like the old '57) and when you need to spend some $$ on some good stuff to make it worth your while. The preamp on your snare bottom ain't gonna be a 1073 unless you demand it, you know what I mean? I consider the ATI's pretty colored and the Precision 8 very unflattering as a preamp. I liked their specs but when I heard them- yuck! NOT a place to spend thousands of dollars. The M80 is a great bargain for an everyday 'whatever' pre (you can get SOME color from them) But I agree with you that in general I think the ATI is a better every day go-to preamp that you'll appreciate if you're not looking for superb accuracy. The ATI is NOT this. But maybe you'll get a good price from David Strang at PRG Audio (used to be ProMix/Electrotec) they have a bunch of these in superb condition. (914-668-8886, tell him Jim van Bergen suggested you call.) I still think the Earthworks 1024, Millenia HV-3B, and Grace 801 are the best in class for eight-channel preamps under 5k. A full rack of real ATI preamps, or one of the recent nice-sounding knockoffs, would be an excellent choice if you only want to do pop or rock music. But let us know what you decide to do! peace- JvB

4th October 2005, 03:52 AM	#20
GilWave Lives for gear Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Jersey, Exit 55 Posts: 1,472	CLM Dynaimc made a very nice mic pre. Not enough of you bought them nor their very cool Expounder EQ, so they have gone out of business. Luckily, you can still source an 8 channel mic pre from your okd pal Gil, and STILL have 8 slots left for EQs, Distressors, Summinmg, and more. I am speaking of course, of Tonelux and the MP1. Come have a listen at AES, booth 436. {disengage shameless plug} -gil

4th October 2005, 06:41 AM	#24
dolo Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Weehawken, NJ Posts: 492	i doubt you'll find any one that will say anything bad about seventh circle's quality and value.

4th October 2005, 06:55 AM	#26
ImJohn Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: WA USA Posts: 1,327	hey, I forgot about Benchmark Media : http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/micpre/mps400-420/ At $1395 list for 4 channels, it would put you over budget to get two, unless you can find a discount somewhere. ( seems rare on Benchmark stuff ) Maybe get one of these and then one Sytek for variety. Plus I think the Benchmark might impress some classical / chamber clients. __________________ John L Rice

4th October 2005, 06:58 AM	#27
ImJohn Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: WA USA Posts: 1,327	Whoops, I think the power supply may be a seperate item for $500 but I'm not positive : http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/micpre/ps2000/index.html __________________ John L Rice

4th October 2005, 07:00 AM	#28
ImJohn Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: WA USA Posts: 1,327	LOL! Nope, never mind, power supply is included! I better go to bed! __________________ John L Rice

4th October 2005, 02:23 PM	#29
dynamo Gear nut Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 144	Just 6....but highly on my list and sure to be considered the new JMP-6: http://www.forsselltech.com/index.html. Anybody tried this ? The price is great too!