Multitracking Equipment for Video

BenFranske · 6th December 2009

I'm looking for some suggestions for new multitrack recording equipment. This is complicated by the fact that I do a few events each year where I need to sync to video (on the plus side I control the video equipment as well so at least there are no fights about who's in charge!)

I've looked at a lot of options in the past few months and haven't found a real stand-out winner yet so I'm looking here for experience with this. A few general considerations:

Depending on the event mixdown might be in Pro Tools HD and it might be in Reaper, or even Ardour. The ability to get the file into any of these is a must, my preference is the device record in BWF.
I already have the ability to lock my word clock to house sync
I would like the ability to do either analog or digital inputs, but this isn't a deal breaker (more a convenience). If it's one or the other I would prefer the inputs be digital.
I would prefer audio chase video (LTC) but as I also control video I could reverse this if it simplified things
I need up to 48 channels for some events, this could grow in the future but 48 is a good target
Either computer based or stand-alone (assuming stable drivers on the computer based models, I've had some bad experience with some of these but like the flexibility)
It would be nice if the system could be purchased in pieces (see below) e.g. a 24 channel system working first and then expanding to 48 later on
Cost is always a consideration, but I'm interested in hearing whatever suggestions you have. If I can have a workable 24 channel system (or less) first and grow it that would be an ideal way to be cost aware but not cornered.

Some of the units I've looked at:

Alesis HD24 - The problems here are 1) the system is a little long in the tooth as far as design advances go 2) getting LTC into this is an advanture 3) no BWF support and no other good way to get timecode out on the recorded files that I can see

M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge - Only 36 inputs and cannot support multiple units.

M-Audio ProFire 2626 - I actually have one of these and really like it but cannot support enough inputs or multiple units.

MOTU 8pre - If only this had a word clock input! In theory clocking can come over ADAT but I've heard horror stories...

JoeCo BBR1-A or BBR1-D - I would really like to use a stack of these but they won't chase LTC/SMPTE. In theory this isn't a problem if the LTC is correctly read initially and everything is clocked together, does anyone have any experience in practice?

RME Products - I've looked at a lot of these including the MADI stuff and the Fireface stuff but these are a little less incremental and a little more expensive.

Thanks for your thoughts!

LX3 · 7th December 2009

You've essentially described the Tascam X-48. I have a couple of them, very capable units, although I recommend using a separate desk to monitor with for the best reliability.

But wow, you do the video AND multitrack the audio... single-handed? Maybe I've misinterpreted your message.

FWIW, it generally takes a crew of two of us - working damn hard - just to rig and capture audio properly at a show.

BenFranske · 7th December 2009

I knew there was one I forgot to mention. I did look pretty seriously at the X-48 when it first came out but at that time and since I've heard about some reliability/software issues which is holding me back. The other drawback to the X-48 I see is that it's primary interface is TDIF, which is basically of no use to me. I would always be using either a digital (AES/EBU or ADAT) or analog connection to preamps so the TDIF interfaces on the X-48 seem to be a waste. The fact I have to jump right into 48 tracks is another downside.

I don't do both the video and audio on a production this size by myself, that would be crazy! I am in charge of providing or arranging for equipment, making it all play nicely together and dealing with any problems that come up. I actually do it for the live sound and video projection side of these productions as well. Thankfully, I have a talented staff to handle specific jobs during the show itself. As the system engineer though I have the ability to choose whether video chases audio, audio chases video, which consoles are getting used, etc. which prevents a lot of the problems many of you have where the audio and video side of the recording are handled by different companies who can't agree on who's in charge.

DannyL · 7th December 2009

I know several people using the X-48 in serious video applications and they are quite happy with the units. There is an optional AES card for the X-48.

Just remember that Tascam and Yamaha use different pinouts for wiring AES to DSUb-25s.

LX3 · 7th December 2009

Gotcha... if I just mentally substitute "we" for "I" it makes sense!

There are a few operational peculiarities with the X-48, but once you get your head around it it's pretty reliable. I've done quite a few TV shows with X-48s, locked to code. They've been great.

I'm using AES inputs on one of them, analog on the other.

You're right, the TDIF connections are a bit redundant for most users. It's a shame because you're forced you to choose between analog, AES, or ADAT (only one of the above), while the TDIF remains unused.

HughH · 8th December 2009

Hello,

We use several X-48s in television production on a daily basis, they work great. There are a few things to be aware (beware) of but once you know those potential failure modes it's a good machine. We exchange analog and aes cards based on where they're being used.

Hugh

rolo95 · 9th December 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by HughH

Hello,

We use several X-48s in television production on a daily basis, they work great. There are a few things to be aware (beware) of but once you know those potential failure modes it's a good machine. We exchange analog and aes cards based on where they're being used.

Hugh

Hey Hugh
what is the setup you use for TV production...
and what are the failure modes on the machines

BenFranske · 9th December 2009

I would also appreciate knowing something more about the peculiarities and things to beware of with the X-48. Having to switch between ADAT or AES and Analog cards is really unfortunate. You would think Tascam would realize that so few people use TDIF comparatively!

I really wish the JoeCo box had better LTC support as I think they would be pretty ideal.

6th December 2009	#1
BenFranske Gear interested Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 26 Thread Starter	Multitracking Equipment for Video I'm looking for some suggestions for new multitrack recording equipment. This is complicated by the fact that I do a few events each year where I need to sync to video (on the plus side I control the video equipment as well so at least there are no fights about who's in charge!) I've looked at a lot of options in the past few months and haven't found a real stand-out winner yet so I'm looking here for experience with this. A few general considerations: Depending on the event mixdown might be in Pro Tools HD and it might be in Reaper, or even Ardour. The ability to get the file into any of these is a must, my preference is the device record in BWF. I already have the ability to lock my word clock to house sync I would like the ability to do either analog or digital inputs, but this isn't a deal breaker (more a convenience). If it's one or the other I would prefer the inputs be digital. I would prefer audio chase video (LTC) but as I also control video I could reverse this if it simplified things I need up to 48 channels for some events, this could grow in the future but 48 is a good target Either computer based or stand-alone (assuming stable drivers on the computer based models, I've had some bad experience with some of these but like the flexibility) It would be nice if the system could be purchased in pieces (see below) e.g. a 24 channel system working first and then expanding to 48 later on Cost is always a consideration, but I'm interested in hearing whatever suggestions you have. If I can have a workable 24 channel system (or less) first and grow it that would be an ideal way to be cost aware but not cornered. Some of the units I've looked at: Alesis HD24 - The problems here are 1) the system is a little long in the tooth as far as design advances go 2) getting LTC into this is an advanture 3) no BWF support and no other good way to get timecode out on the recorded files that I can see M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge - Only 36 inputs and cannot support multiple units. M-Audio ProFire 2626 - I actually have one of these and really like it but cannot support enough inputs or multiple units. MOTU 8pre - If only this had a word clock input! In theory clocking can come over ADAT but I've heard horror stories... JoeCo BBR1-A or BBR1-D - I would really like to use a stack of these but they won't chase LTC/SMPTE. In theory this isn't a problem if the LTC is correctly read initially and everything is clocked together, does anyone have any experience in practice? RME Products - I've looked at a lot of these including the MADI stuff and the Fireface stuff but these are a little less incremental and a little more expensive. Thanks for your thoughts!

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7th December 2009	#2
LX3 Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 994	You've essentially described the Tascam X-48. I have a couple of them, very capable units, although I recommend using a separate desk to monitor with for the best reliability. But wow, you do the video AND multitrack the audio... single-handed? Maybe I've misinterpreted your message. FWIW, it generally takes a crew of two of us - working damn hard - just to rig and capture audio properly at a show.

7th December 2009	#4
DannyL Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sao Paulo Posts: 278	I know several people using the X-48 in serious video applications and they are quite happy with the units. There is an optional AES card for the X-48. Just remember that Tascam and Yamaha use different pinouts for wiring AES to DSUb-25s.

8th December 2009	#6
HughH Gear maniac Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 206	Hello, We use several X-48s in television production on a daily basis, they work great. There are a few things to be aware (beware) of but once you know those potential failure modes it's a good machine. We exchange analog and aes cards based on where they're being used. Hugh

9th December 2009	#8
BenFranske Gear interested Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 26 Thread Starter	I would also appreciate knowing something more about the peculiarities and things to beware of with the X-48. Having to switch between ADAT or AES and Analog cards is really unfortunate. You would think Tascam would realize that so few people use TDIF comparatively! I really wish the JoeCo box had better LTC support as I think they would be pretty ideal.