Can anybody tell me why this set up would be a bad idea?

[BMT]

I am starting a small mobile recording rig targeted for smaller gigs (local bands, weddings, etc.). I want to offer 24 live inputs so here is the rig I am going to get. 01v96 v2 w/ my16-mlan, i88x, powerbook 1.5ghz w/ 512mb ram running DP 4.6, 250gb lacie external hd. Here is how I plan on setting it up. I am going to run 16 channels via mlan out of the 01v96 into the i88x. I am going to run 8 more via the adat out on the 01v96 into the i88x. The i88x will combine the 16 mlan and 8 adat channels and I will run them mlan (firewire) into the powerbook. Of course I will hook up the lacie via firewire. Now I know that redundant back up is paramount in a live situation and as soon as I get the funds I plan on getting an hd24, and I know that laptops may not be that stable but here are my results so far. I have been testing the rig today (w/out the 01v96) and at first I created 18 audio tracks and assigned them to the 18 inputs on the i88x. At first it would not run very long but after trying a few different configurations in the set ups it ran for over 2 hours! So I stopped it and went for more (gearslut style!). As I'm typing this I am 10 minutes short of another 2 hours of stable recording with 32 tracks. So what's the deal? Am I just crazy or might this actually work? Thanks for any input. BMT p.s. ram is the first thing on the to get list!

[BMT]

It's been over a week and 80 views to this post and not a single comment, opinion or insult! I guess now I'm insulted. No seriously though, does anyone have anything they can offer up? Just looking to hear what any fellow slutz may have to say about my rig. Rock on! BMT

[Legacy]

Hi BMT,

Just reinforcing your mention of getting a backup system. Personally I would get it -yesterday- before taking any paying gigs. All of our businesses are built on word of mouth. You definitely do not want to be "the guy who recorded our show and lost everything". I record to computers on location a lot. They are pretty reliable if carefully configured and cared for. In location work that is just not reliable enough. I am happy with my HD24XR so far as a backup recorder.

You will eventually also encounter the need to interface with the live sound engineers (even just a small PA). You will need to have some sort of split arangement so you can be sure to get what you need without being at the mercy of the other engineer. See the sticky at the top of this forum for more info on splits. A bunch of Y cables might be your only choice short of spending a good deal of money.

Another thought (that adds infinite complexity but more businees opportunity) is to add a single or 2-camera video element to your location recordings. You could distinguish yourself from the crowd quickly if you were able to provide inexpensive, simple promo DVDs for bands etc. This is not easy...

Good Luck,
Silas

[LX3]

Great to hear you're getting 32 tracks reliably. However...

I went down precisely this road about three years ago. And eventually I got bitten, on a fairly important project. I had just ordered an HD24XR, and was planning on using my laptop rig (that had been my primary recorder for the last two years) as my backup. But because of supplier incompetance, the HD24 failed to show up in time (it arrived two days after the show!).

So I recorded with just the laptop. It hadn't let me down before...

So naturally, that's the gig it decides to let me down on. On a day-long recording, the rig worked fine for the first couple of hours, then started glitching and freaking out every ten minutes. Very embarrassing, and of course I didn't get paid.

So my thoughts about laptop recording are:

1) there are just too many variables. Maybe an OS update will change something, a new release of your DAW might have undiscovered new bugs, the driver or chipset in that new external HD decides to let you down (which I suspect is what happened to me). To be honest, I never felt 100% confident about the reliability. Maybe 99%, but in these one-shot-only situations, 99% is not good enough. Every time I completed a recording without a problem I felt like I'd dodged a bullet.

2) there's too much setup and configuration to stay on top of, particularly when you're recording a lot of tracks simultaneously, requiring a bunch of separate interfaces etc. Things like simply putting 24 tracks into record ready with a trackpad or a mouse takes forever. Getting the right inputs routed to the right tracks. Sometimes something crazy happens (artist goes on stage unexpectedly?) and I have 10 seconds to get into record. I can't be opening menus and clicking tiny record buttons with a cursor. With the HD24 you race along the record ready buttons with your finger and hit record. There's a whole lot less to worry about. In my book, reducing the number of possible "gotchas" to an absolute minimum is my primary mission.

Downside of hardware? HD24 and preamps and monitor mixer is bigger, heavier, and undoubtedly more expensive. But we're not talking megabucks... And in any case, any money spent on a rig that fails to do the job is wasted expenditure. Buy the right thing the first time and save yourself a trip to ebay :-)

Other people's mileage may vary - lots of people I'm sure are getting great work done with a laptop rig - and undoubtedly up-to-date computers and software are more bullet-proof than say three years ago. And they're great for overdubs and editing, and as small self-contained portable studios with monitoring and effects all built in. But when it's critical that a recording works and keeps working... I'd personally much rather have hardware. I sleep better!

Paul

[LX3]

Oh, and while I think of it, the other downside of hardware? You'd better be a soldering and cable construction guru. You should see the back end of my racks! It's all super-neat, and quick to hook up, but that was the result of considerable planning, then weeks slaving over a hot solder station and a lot of heatshrink. In my case, there were 500-600 solder joints to make just to configure the preamp and recorder racks.

Anyhow, reading your post again, it sounds like the horse has already bolted. Hope you're having fun with the system (and yes, definitely max yourself out with RAM!).

Paul

[Legacy]

Hi again,

Take a look at APC Line-R 1200VA:

http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=67

It is the cheapest way that I know of to have some voltage regulation on location (around $50 and not too heavy!). It just does regulation and not filtering or battery backup like the larger UPS's but its a lot cheaper / lighter. You will be shocked (not literally we hope...) to see the kind of power you get on location. Also have a cheap outlet tester with you (www.Radioshack.com catalog # 22-141, $5.99). I have been in countless churches, concert halls etc that had missing grounds, even hot neutral reversed!



Good Luck,
Silas

[venuestudio]

Two things, first I would agree with a hardware based setup. I have a very rudimentry setup, HD24 and 3 ada8000's. Point being that it all fits nicely in a 6 space rack. the ada8000's go into the HD24 via ADAT optical and the analog outs go to an O1V. very easy to setup and run. Second, stage splits should be considered manditory. With ground lifts if possible. Check on eBay, you can get a 24 channel split with lifts for about 600-800. well worth it.

[BMT]

Thank you guys for the advice and war stories. I had already had intentions of buying an HD 24 when I had the funds as well as a splitter snake. But for now I plan on renting them as needed. Also I had already made some plans to implement video into the services I offer. Do any of you guys do this yet? Is it just me or is location recording a rather tight knit group. The forum here doesn't get a lot of hits. How come more people don't get into this area of recording? Anymore hints or advice keep 'em coming! Thanks guys! BMT

[Biber]

hello

Also I had already made some plans to implement video into the services I offer. Do any of you guys do this yet?

yessss i do, i try to setup a small business with a friend of mine, at the moment we are testing some things and varios setups. here are some photos from our last date

it was a church-organ concert with live feed trom the table into the church. we used four dv-cams (left, right, above, foot) and an additional handheld for "people-shots" just for editing. at the moment i´m mixing for 5.1 and my friend is editing to a reference audio-track which was delivered from me. he cannot use his own ref-audio because of sync reasons

ohh by the way the artist was Iveta apkalna , she is a very nice person and her playing is incredible.

[BMT]

... That looks awesome. I hope it comes out good for you. Any other stories out there to share? - BMT

[shaddai]

About the the 'backup machine' idea. I was hired to record an artist that was playing live with another artist the same night. The idea was a short & small DVD release eventually, so the show was recorded with 3 or 4 Sony DSR's, and me.

Well, 5 minutes before the show starts, I'm informed that they've decided to record both artists..through the entire concert. I'm there just with a Mackie MDR, just 20 gigs on the internal disc & set up for 24 bit on 8 tracks. Uh oh.

Got on the phone right quick trying to get ahold of a Mackie external drive, while plugging 8 more tracks into the distro box. Then tried finding adats, HD cams, an Otari or anything else to record with...w/no luck. Finally, I was forced into resetting the MDR for 16 bit (bummer) and hoping the show didn't go as long as they told me it was going to. it.

Anyway, the show finished with 3 minutes on the MDR's timer before the drive was 100% full.

I pressed stop, let it do it's rewind thing (the MDR has a rewind button for digital!?!) and then pressed play. @#$@$!!!! Nada on the meters..

The promoter came up & asked how it went. I smiled, said 'it was an adventure' & wouldn't say anything more. I'd decided to take the MDR home & plug it on the network before saying anything. Got it home...the OS won't boot..therefore the FTP won't start...so no network.

So, relying on my experience in having dealt with stubborn machines of the 4 & 2 tired type, I did what any normal Idaho boy would do. I drank 4 beers, ate dinner, and then took the stubborn little MDR apart. Got down to the hard drive & yanked it. Pulled the DAW apart & put the hard drive on an extra IDE connector that was in there. Rebooted the computer and got to the MDR's drive to find...AUDIO!!

Yay me!

I immediately burnt every inch of that hard drive with error checking to DVD. I then copied the wav files I needed to another drive.

I then put the MDR back together, reloaded the OS & gave it back to the guy it belonged to.

Anyway, the moral of the story: Get an 2nd recording device before doing anything else. I myself wound up with another MDR of my own, and a knowledge of 3 more MDR/HDR units in town I can rent on a moments notice.

Just my $.02