Bach's Weihnachtsoratorium as maiden voyage / mic setup?

[da burf]

Dear remoters,
on december 12th me and my partner will be recording Bachs Weihnachtsoratorium in a nice church in Holland. Good amateurchoir, professional orchestra and soloists. It's just a pilotrecording, no recording to be released or whatever.
All in all a great opportunity!

My experience with this kind of operation is 'circumstantial', my recording experience varies from studio recording non-classical music to location recording of bluesbands, and I'm professionaly trained as a guitarist (Jazz).
Been listening to classical music since I was a kid.

We will be recording with a nice and stable i7 PC running cubase 4 (for now), a prismsound Orpheus and preamps from GML and Amek, total 7 channels including those from the Orpheus.

Right now I'm looking at the microphone setup.
My thougts are: AB main pair DPA4006, 2 spots for soloists (MK4 with active tube?), spotmic (u87) for the bass/continuo, stereo pair with cardioids for the choir.
I might have the time for a soundcheck during the last rehearsal the evening before.

What do you think about this mic setup?
Any specific others remarks/tips/thoughts?

Any answer is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Jurgen.

[d_fu]

Sounds pretty reasonable. You might want to add a pair for woodwinds.

[pkautzsch]

Depending on the church's low-mid response, and on how the orchestra sits, you might want a timpani spot rather than a bass spot. That is, if the bass comes through well enough on the main pair.
Actually you need both.

[d_fu]

Depending on where they are, one of the choir or wind mics may also pick up that extra bit of direct sound from the timpani...

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Depending on where they are, one of the choir or wind mics may also pick up that extra bit of direct sound from the timpani...

Yes, but it will not necessarily put them where one wants them in the stereo picture.

[da burf]

thanks, I will try to listen where the spot mics are needed most.
What about the mic setup for the choir?
AB? ORTF? XY? or treat them as spots? (sopr+ten / alto+basses)?

[pkautzsch]

Either sort-of spots with enough space between them, that's what I usually do.
A stereo setup can be nice too, but take care it's imaging fits the main pair image. That's something that can be done reliably on speakers only.
EDIT: fitting the main pair image doesn't only mean the choir, but also all the leakage from winds, trumpets, and timpani.

As they are amateurs, probably the safest bet would be using 4 mics, one each for S,A,T,B - not too close, though!! The last thing you want to hear is single voices from an amateur choir.

OTOH if it's your first classical gig you'd be well off putting most of your effort in placing the main pair. Spots in a live setting CAN save your a*s more often than not, but if the main pair isn't right, they will NEED to.
Do you have the APEs for the DPAs? They can be very helpful in diminishing audience noises and adding some focus to the omni sound.

[da burf]

pkautzsch, thanks for your response.
I will look into the APEs.
Since I'm renting the DPA's, let's see if the rental company has them.

Do you have anything more to say about the main pair?
Would AB be something you'd do as well?
Maybe a height and distance you'd start with?
Do you sometimes work with two main pairs and decide afterwards?

Thanks guys, I'm really excited about this and would like to decide everything by ear and experiment, but I'm afraid the time to do this will be short.....

[pkautzsch]

AB usually sounds best. It's actually the only way you have with omnis (except Jecklin/Schneider/whoever disc which imho works well with headphones, but not so well with loudspeaker playback).
First thing to find out is how far from the ensemble you get the direct/reverb balance you want. Then adjust the spacing so you get the width you want - Williams' "The Stereophonic Zoom" paper gives clues as to typical values.
Often my main pair ends up about 3 to 4 m high, and seldom farther than 2 m back. The closer, the more often outriggers will be needed, but you get a better ensemble/audience ratio.

[da burf]

pkautzsch, thanks yet again.
Fascinating stuff!

I think I'm ready for the gig, I'll report back afterwards! (maybe with a sound snippet) Or chime in earlier should other questions arise....

Thank you!
Jurgen.

[da burf]

so here we are the monday after the gig.
All went well!
Due to lack of space, we only had the chance to use an AB-bar and one spot mic on the bass/organ/timpani side. Ofcourse they were doing us a favor, so we weren't exactly in a position to demand things. The recording however turned out nice!

We used two AB-pairs, outer (41cm aprox) the DPA4006's, inner (35cm aprox) the Schoeps MK4's, just to hear what the difference would be.
In the headphones the 4006's seemed to be the most realistic space-wise (what you would expect from omni's ofcourse).
Positioned at a height of 3 meters, 2 or a little less meters from the conductor.

Anyway, it was a great experience with great people and performers and we might come back in april to record a Mattheuspassion.

Thanks again for your help!

[audio ergo sum]

Here is another very unique recording perspective of this great work ;-)

Perfect recording chain. All tube preamp and tube mic. Modded M50 with original Neumann tube and retrofitted nickel membrane. Very lush sound.

[Elk]

As a trumpet player I find the balance perfect.