Gefell M296 and DPA 4061 Comparo

[Audiop]

M296 is an omni microphone so comparison is AB vs AB.


/Peter

[fafalio]

ah, i thought it was a widecardiod!
but the distance of the two AB are completly different.

[aracu]

4060 are ideal for small ensembles in very good acoustics.

[JEGG]

I'm not asserting anything about the small DPA's, but I am bothered by references to the noise of microphones relative to the amount of ambient noise in a room, or even the level of program material.

That comparison or relationship is not necessarily meaningful.

Just because the level of electronic noise is lower than the ambient noise level of the room or the level of program material does not, at all, mean the noise is masked. Even program material is often under the noise level of the room.

A question for those with an engineering background:

Does noise produce modulation effects with program material and/or other noise? Or, doesn't everything intermodulate?

Not to confuse modulation with modulation distortion.

[Audiop]

If you feed a periodic signal and low level noise thru a nonlinear system the periodic signal will be modulated by the noise but since the noise is very low to begin with the artefacts will end up at very low levels.

Also the resulting artefacts will by random like the noise = a small inaudible increase in noise level.

For new stationary spectral components (HD, IMD) to form two periodic signals are needed.


/Peter

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by JEGG

Just because the level of electronic noise is lower than the ambient noise level of the room or the level of program material does not, at all, mean the noise is masked. Even program material is often under the noise level of the room.

I agree. The ambient noise may not mask a sound at lower level than itself when this sound has a different distribution of power in frequency so that, despite its lower global level, it has a higher level around some frequencies, like a musical program, or in some frequency band, like the self-noise of a microphone that has less roll-off in HF than the ambient noise. However I never noticed the noise excess from my DPA 4060s (-23 dBA ?) with respect to quieter condensers (Schoeps etc.).

[hbphotoav]

re: fafalio's comment: 'Twas a 40cm AB vs. a 1m AB comparison, and to see how the $400 DPA compared to the $1,500 Gefell. I planned to use the take from the Gefells from the beginning, and that's what the client chose as well. If I didn't have the 4x price of the Gefells, I could live very well with the 4061s. In real-world playback, the differences are minute.

I've done a similar comparison on an organ concert (Cool Mic Comparo: Golden Ears requested) with a truly ORTF pair of Sennheiser MKH8040, a Brauner VM-1S in XY, and the DPAs in a 3m AB spacing. All three were rather well received. Nobody was particularly impressed with the AA CM-28s spread wide.

[JEGG]

Peter, thanks for that. As I thought.

[jnorman]

i have been using a pair of the DPA 4090s for chamber work, the 4090 is very similar to the 4060 and 4061, but is housed in a metal body for stand mounting. i posted a sample recording from the 4090s in this thread:
another video sample for critique

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by didier.brest

I never noticed the noise excess from my DPA 4060s (-23 dBA ?) with respect to quieter condensers (Schoeps etc.).

I hope you meant +23dBA. I am astonished by this statement. The 4060 self noise floor is profoundly more noisy than any Schoeps.

Assuming that this argument, stated again ad infinitum, is that the self noise of DPA miniatures does not preclude them from being ambient main pairs in high quality classical recordings, I say quote me examples of them being used by the majors for CD release.

Their noise level is way to high for this purpose.

[jnorman]

david - please go listen to the recording i posted from the DPA 4090s and see what you think of them. (link in thread right above your last post.)

[aracu]

Clip of 4060 pair on contemporary classical vocal duo, in a small church:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/8/...09/magn.sh.mp3