Soloist spot in Rodrigo´s Concierto de Aranjuez.

[davidvaldes]

Hi everybody.

I´ll be recording Rodrigo´s "Concierto de Aranjuez" soon (sadly, the hall is very bad). As a spot mic for the solo guitar, would you go for a mono or stereo approach?

Thanks.

[rumleymusic]

Mono, and delay it to the mains. The soloist is only in one place, and doesn't need his own stereo image in my opinion. Spots are just for clarity.

[d_fu]

thumbsup

Nothing else to add...

[pkautzsch]

Depends on what your main mic system is, and how much of the guitar it picks up.
If it's an ORTF over conductor's head picking up the orchestra perfectly, but *behind* the soloist, the guitar won't project into the main pair. Then a small AB pair of spots, say 20 cm, may be the way to go.
If it's a spaced pair a few feet back in the hall, and there are maybe some orchestra mics up, a mono spot can be better.

[Plush]

I would mic the soloist in stereo for sure. The reason to do that is that when you add the soloist in to the stereo picture, you can pan them to their position without ruining the stereo from the main pair.

Pan position of the stereo spot mics might be, for example, hard LFT. and then the other mic at 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock.

This allows for flexibility and stereo pick up of the soloist gives more dimension to their sound.

[NorseHorse]

I would use a stereo mic in m/s. Best of both worlds.

[rumleymusic]

The reason to do that is that when you add the soloist in to the stereo picture, you can pan them to their position without ruining the stereo from the main pair.

I am not understanding your reasoning. Perhaps you can elaborate a little bit. I would think (assuming the main stereo image IS generated from a main pair in front of the orchestra and soloist) that a separate stereo pair not centered with the orchestra and in close proximity with 'non' solo instruments would throw off the balance more than a single spot.

The whole point of spot miking a soloist is to increase the direct sound clarity of one instrument and panned/mixed appropriately, the stereo image would not be "ruined" at all by either method. The advantage of mono is you can pinpoint the instrument and not the surrounding 2nd-3rd chair first violins.

Though I do agree with pkautzsch, if the main array does not capture the soloist adequately, a single soloist spot might sound constrained And I would prefer a stereo approach.

I would use a stereo mic in m/s. Best of both worlds.

Good idea.

[David Spearritt]

Yes, we have found a Schoeps M/S stereo pair works best when spotting a classical guitar in an ensemble.

[Plush]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

I am not understanding your reasoning. Perhaps you can elaborate a little bit. I would think (assuming the main stereo image IS generated from a main pair in front of the orchestra and soloist) that a separate stereo pair not centered with the orchestra and in close proximity with 'non' solo instruments would throw off the balance more than a single spot. . . [cut]

Just today I am working on edits for a Rodrigo Concerto andaluz.

The reason to use a stereo mic on soloist(s) is so that when you bring in the hi-lited material it does not stick out on the left (solo position). Sometimes when using a single mic, by the time you get enough level on the solo mic to be of benefit, it might stick out too much and collapse the stereo picture. It might sound "pasted on."

When you use a stereo mic or make the pick-up in true stereo, you have flexibility to pan it and fit it in to the program material without collapsing the stereo image.
Using stereo to mic the playa also maintains dimensionality in the sound.

I'm not suggesting that a single mic won't do the job and a singe mic is called for if you are micing farther away from the soloist (like a hanging vln. position). However for cello, vln micing with stand on stage, singers singing in to a mic position on stage and in our case for gtr playas, a stereo pick-up is ideal. I like to do this with a stereo xy mic such as Neumann SM69 or other xy type stereo mic.

It may take a while to get your position and panning worked out but this suggestion is one of the secret weapons for good sound.

See my sig. below.

[rumleymusic]

See my sig. below.

(in a childish, mopey mumble) I'm not a mope, YOU'RE a mope.

Thanks for your elaboration, I normally don't have to opportunity to get up close and personal with solo spots, so your explanation makes sense.

[davidvaldes]

Thanks everybody for your help and all the information provided.

I always heard and read (and seems to be common prectice) that spots are mono. Everytime I did this, the soloist would appear too much to one side and, as someone has stated in the thread, "pasted".

I have recently read a book by Andrew Hallifax, in which he recommends using spot mics in pairs. It made sense to me, so decided to ask the question in the forum and see what the "quorum" is.

I think I will go for a M/S set up, as it will give total mono compatibility in case I want to stick to the mono spot approach (I don´t think so, but just in case), and it will give me the chance to adjust the stero spread at will.

I will be using a Crown SASS as a main pair (new acquisition, and looking forward to use it!), plus two outriggers (Telefunken M16 MkII) and the spot for the soloist (Peluso P).

Again, thanks for all the info.

[Yannick]

MS gives great flexibility as a soloist spot.

a. you can decide to use the mono component only, if it works
b. you narrow the stereo field, skew it until it "fits" the main pair
c. going towards stereo, the spot has ambience of its owned, avoiding the pasted on quality (IR reverbs help as well)

When using a mono spot, we tend to use a fig8, with as much of the orchestra in the null as possible, and as little in the backside.

BTW I really like our Royers for this ...

[matthewd]

Hi

One point about this - I am not sure it was specified whether it is a live recording or sessions. In the live situation, it is common practice to have the guitar amplified in some way and obviously the micing for this is rather different to what might be desirable for recording. The same mono v stereo issue applies. I've known people to adopt the single point source approach such as an AER high quality guitar amp. Alternatively, I've seen a pair of D&B E8s or similar each side of the stage. The AER approach gives the player a bit of monitor but if you were recording, it can be a bit of a disaster having a monitor so close. I've got a feeling this is sessions in this instance but its worth bringing it up on people's radar as it is a popular piece that many of us encounter and about three people can play properly!! Look at the score and you'll find most guitarists make certain bits up entirely!!!

Matt

[Yannick]

Anyway this is the best version.

Easier to mike up anyway.

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