Recording a (large) contemporary Gospel Choir - ideas?

[Drum9uy]

Hi Everyone,

I'm doing a recording for my University's Gospel Choir and wanted to get some feedback for proposed set up. I'll explain what I have so far but any and all ideas are welcome!

Drums (no toms gotta keep it to 16 channels tops):
OH - sf12
snare - 57
kick - d6

Guitar:
r121

Keys 1 & 2:
api 3124+

Bass:
Avalon u5 -> api 3124+

2 lead vox mics are sm87, the live guy and myself each taking one of the outputs from the receiver

Choir (194 singers):
4 schoeps cmc6 mk4 (spread evenly across the choir)

Room (600 person hall, not very live. 450 seated main, 150 balcony):
2 schoeps cmc6 mk4 in ORTF


All the schoeps are being rented, and just bought a brand new Millennia hv-3d-8
I have my own 3124+ and the 4 pres in my MOTU traveler.
For conversion I have 8 channels from the MOTU and another 8 from a Mytek 8x96 (adat to the MOTU). Whole thing goes firewire into my Mac Pro which will be on the side of the stage.

I guess I'm just looking for any commentary for ideas on getting a good sound or from anyone who has experience with a set up like this. Thanks in advance!

[Remoteness]

Time for a little bumpage.
I noticed no one has chimmed in as of yet.
Did this date happen already?
If so, how did it come out?

[DannyL]

Mic the Choir in sections: SATB, not just "evenly spaced" though it may work out that way. Use shock mounts.

I prefer SM57's for gospel vocals to Sm87's... something about that element keeps the vocals nice and centered without too much effort.

Make the Mytek the clock master.

Keep an eye on your headroom....and remember that a live show is probably a lot louder than a rehearsal... keep and extra 12db headroom...it is easier to bring levels up than to bring them down.

If you can get farther away, in room backstage it is MUCH better.

Keep an eye on electrical ground...be sure the PA and you are on the same ground plane and electrical phase.

That's about it for now.

Danny

[ysmgj]

I've also got a Gospel choir recording to do on the 5th of December, so I thought I might hitchhike on Drum9uy's thread instead of starting a new one.

-50 singers, including about 25 kids.

- the choir director.

-keyboards x 2.

-drums.

The space is in a modernish medium sized church with the room being about 40m x 10m with a pitched roof with exposed roof rafters. I think it sounds quite ok, and with an expected audience of 250 people, i think it will sound good on the night.

The choir will be on the altar and the altar steps.

Being a noob at this, what I have to work with right now are 4 Little Blondie omni mics from Sahiaman, my Motu Ultralite, and a bunch sm58's and sm57's that the church owns. I did think about going on a shopping spree, but I think I can produce a good recording with what I have right now.

I'm thinking,....

XY or ORTF the blondies on the choir depending on whether the choir is bunched up together or more spread out.

keyboards I'm thinking will be DI-ed.

drums,.... sm57's or I might just throw up my zoom H4 and take the line out. The dude is loud, but after having a word with him, I hope he will play softer on the night. I did a recording of a rehearsal, and the blondies picked up more than enough drums, so I might not need to mic the kit if i get the balance right.

that rehearsal however was nothing like the night is going to be, choir was only background singers, spread out through the church seats, and I did an AB with the blondies. The only thing it told me was that the drums are f.ing loud

that and that shock mounts are a good idea as DannyL suggested.

I think the church is small enough to not need room mics, and although I am tempted to mic the choir as close as possible to minimize the drums, but maybe backing away from them a bit will let me pick up more audience participation,.... this may be a baptist church, but theyre still japanese baptists so not sure how rowdy they're gonna get.

this is gonna be my first recording of a proper event,... I can hardly wait, and yet, I'm pissing my pants .

Any advice from you guys would be greatly appreciated as it must be blatantly obvious by now that I havent got a clue what I'm doing, not the first time either .

cheers.

[DannyL]

Well...I am not familiar with the Blondies...(just the Band and the Comic strip) but if they are omnis you cannot use them for x/y or ORTF,,,both those formats require Cardioid mics. Your best bet may be a pair of spaced omnis.
Tho: I have used omnis on choirs, but I did not like them. After many years of recording I have found that SATB mic'ing is what works best for me.

How many sections in your choir? I would suggest getting a large diaphragm mic for each section and mounting them on heavy stands w/ shock mounts.
Can they be borrowed?

I would absolutely mic the room for ambience and crowd reacts.

Use SM 57's w/ windscreens for your soloists.

Kick-SM58, Snare- SM57, OH--maybe a blondie or 2?

Danny

[ysmgj]

yeah they are omni's, and thanks for letting me know xy or ortf wont really work with them, saved me a good day of rehearsal time.

I'll look into micing them in sections,.... would that sound better than AB even if they were all bunched up?

I'm hoping the next rehearsal tomorrow will give me a better idea of who goes where, what happens when etc.

Thanks DannyL, I'm sure tomorrow I'll have alot more questions. apart from what you've already mentioned, is there anything else I should look out for/ask about?

[Drum9uy]

Hey Everybody,

thanks Remoteness for the bump. Unfortunately due to some uncontrollable circumstances an in-house staff was chosen to record (without the slutty gear )

There's another performance in the spring which looks like I will be doing the tech for so I guess I got more planning time then eh?

I really appreciate all the feedback and I'm really excited for the next show to put it all to use. Due to the size / sections of the choir the "evenly spaced" mics do work out in sections. The baritone section is pretty small so their behind/right next to the tenors so it's really 1 for S, 1 for T/B, 2 for A (there are 100 altos )

Again, thanks, and I'll check back when things get under way again --> hopefully will post clips after the recording!

[RMJAZZ]

For live recordings, "Gospel" choirs are almost always overdubed in the studio. I hate that they do that, but it can make the live gig go so much better if they tell you up front that they have a ton of overdubs planned.

Problems with live contemporary Gospel..

1. They usually like to be so loud that you can hear the gig in the next county!
2. Lack of mic handling knowledge...so be nice and try to explain how not to grab the mic and such..

3. The choir mics are REALLY tough b/c of bleed from everything...and B3 is NOT your friend! If the "stage" area is big enough try to separate musicians as much as you can. Blankets can be used in some situations. Google "Kirk Whalum; Gospel According to Jazz Chapter 2". There are some vids up on youtube as well. There is a huge blanket on the grand piano and it sounds fantastic...but then again it is George Duke playing it!

4. If you can convince them to do headphone monitors on the musicians your life will be a lot easier too. If they don't have aviom in their church, you might be able to rent one for the day and make the band members bring their own headphones. Just remember to build the cost into the bid, or ask the church to do the rental.


Just some opinions...

Have great recordings!

Rob