TV Help! Phase problems on lav mics

Hear-o · 6th November 2009

Hi All,
I'm running the board for a TV talk show program where there are 4-5 guests mic'd w/ lavs. The problem is that these guests are sitting literally shoulder-to-shoulder at a table. If I only have one mic open, it sounds great. But, as I need all the mics up at the same time (to allow for the discussions that take place), I'm getting phase problems and some echo effects that I obviously do not want. Unfortunately, the guests cannot be moved from their places. Is there anything I can do to mitigate these problems?

Thanks!

tms8707056 · 7th November 2009

Gates may help for some automatic muting when that person is not speaking. Don't know how well because it depends on how loud they speak and the environment (reflections, etc).

I would opt for using a cardioid mic on each person if possible.

mintytowel · 7th November 2009

Dugan Automatic Microphone Mixers This guy makes a box that is an automatic gain controller or something like that. They are absolutely incredible, I have no idea how it actually works, but its super easy to set up and super intuitive to use, just insert it on your lav channels. It should solve all your problems. They are really expensive though, you may want to rent one and see if it works.

Matti · 7th November 2009

Usually you have all mics open but at lower level and bring up the one who´s
speaking and on outgoing picture. You´ll have to follow the game to see who is going to say something next and prepare favoring him / her. Good eysight to the scene is a must and it´s good to actually listen what they are talking.
The presenter should keep them from talking all the same time but if that happens just favor the one who has something to say ;-)

Matti

Hear-o · 7th November 2009

Thanks for the tips! Yep, it looks like I'll be riding the faders a bit. I'll also have to check out that Dugan device.

Thanks again!

Matti · 7th November 2009

edit: Automatic Mixers, Auto-Mixers Audio Equipment from Full Compass

Matti

huub · 8th November 2009

Well, that's your job as a mixer for tv.. To make it not sound crappy and also not be late with openeng mics. It's pretty hard actually..
If you close faders of people not talking about 4-5 dBs, it's enough to get rid of most phasing..

foxy · 8th November 2009

Hey,

just did a job today with four lavs sitting in a row. I was recording to seperate channels on sound devices 788 t, way to go. No phasing problems when you can edit the channels seperately! Cheaper than the ducking machine I'd guess.

Larry Elliott · 8th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxy

just did a job today with four lavs sitting in a row. I was recording to seperate channels on sound devices 788 t, way to go. No phasing problems when you can edit the channels seperately! Cheaper than the ducking machine I'd guess.

Agreed - but a bit difficult if you are going live to air

**Remoteness** · 8th November 2009

You want to keep all the faders up and mix in and balance as each talking head speaks.

I like to keep my pre amp gains high and my faders low so I can get a quicker increase in volume when I raise the applicable fader.

BTW, those Dugan Automatic Mic Mixers are pretty awesome when used correctly.

Good luck and happy mixing!

Jim vanBergen · 8th November 2009

Dugan- Dugan- Dugan. It's the secret weapon of most shows that use lavs.

CottageLunch · 8th November 2009

Go and rent the unit from Dan himself, pretty darn cheap too.
Try the newer E unit, tiny and light and Lightpipe i/o too.
We used 3 unit ganged together for a national spelling Bee with 24 open lavs on 12 kids, the hosts, and the judges. In the unscripted "scramble" round we had no way of knowing which kids would get the word first, these saved the day at FOH , the IEM feed and in the truck for the 2 mix program feed. We later edited the whole thing but for a clean feed on the day it was great. Also, if the talent is fidgeting, that will trigger the lav and become very apparent very quickly.
If they are seated you should have no issue.
Brian in Halifax

Brian Power (I)

Hear-o · 8th November 2009

Thanks for all the great advice everyone.

huub · 10th November 2009

Has anyone here tried the shure intellimix system (scm 810 for example) for talkshow? my german collegues tell me it's fantastic...

loujudson · 10th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by huub

Has anyone here tried the shure intellimix system (scm 810 for example) for talkshow? my german collegues tell me it's fantastic...

The Shure is nowhere near as effective as the Dugan system. I have used both, give me the Dugan every time!

Lou

6th November 2009	#1
Hear-o Gear interested Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3 Thread Starter	TV Help! Phase problems on lav mics Hi All, I'm running the board for a TV talk show program where there are 4-5 guests mic'd w/ lavs. The problem is that these guests are sitting literally shoulder-to-shoulder at a table. If I only have one mic open, it sounds great. But, as I need all the mics up at the same time (to allow for the discussions that take place), I'm getting phase problems and some echo effects that I obviously do not want. Unfortunately, the guests cannot be moved from their places. Is there anything I can do to mitigate these problems? Thanks!

7th November 2009	#2
tms8707056 Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Jackson, TN Posts: 310	Gates may help for some automatic muting when that person is not speaking. Don't know how well because it depends on how loud they speak and the environment (reflections, etc). I would opt for using a cardioid mic on each person if possible. __________________ Matt Snyder 15" MBP 2Ghz Core 2 Duo 6GB RAM, 2 320GB LaCie Quadra Drives, MOTU 828mk3, Logic 9 on SL 10.6 "There is no such thing as an old song, just bad ones."

8th November 2009	#10
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 7,311	You want to keep all the faders up and mix in and balance as each talking head speaks. I like to keep my pre amp gains high and my faders low so I can get a quicker increase in volume when I raise the applicable fader. BTW, those Dugan Automatic Mic Mixers are pretty awesome when used correctly. Good luck and happy mixing! __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network What about my Facebook Profile? Remoteness on Myspace

8th November 2009	#12
CottageLunch Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 92	Dugan Mixers Go and rent the unit from Dan himself, pretty darn cheap too. Try the newer E unit, tiny and light and Lightpipe i/o too. We used 3 unit ganged together for a national spelling Bee with 24 open lavs on 12 kids, the hosts, and the judges. In the unscripted "scramble" round we had no way of knowing which kids would get the word first, these saved the day at FOH , the IEM feed and in the truck for the 2 mix program feed. We later edited the whole thing but for a clean feed on the day it was great. Also, if the talent is fidgeting, that will trigger the lav and become very apparent very quickly. If they are seated you should have no issue. Brian in Halifax Brian Power (I)

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7th November 2009	#3
mintytowel Gear maniac Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 209 1 Review written	Dugan Automatic Microphone Mixers This guy makes a box that is an automatic gain controller or something like that. They are absolutely incredible, I have no idea how it actually works, but its super easy to set up and super intuitive to use, just insert it on your lav channels. It should solve all your problems. They are really expensive though, you may want to rent one and see if it works.

7th November 2009	#4
Matti Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 3,696	Usually you have all mics open but at lower level and bring up the one who´s speaking and on outgoing picture. You´ll have to follow the game to see who is going to say something next and prepare favoring him / her. Good eysight to the scene is a must and it´s good to actually listen what they are talking. The presenter should keep them from talking all the same time but if that happens just favor the one who has something to say ;-) Matti

8th November 2009	#7
huub Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: amsterdam Posts: 1,127	Well, that's your job as a mixer for tv.. To make it not sound crappy and also not be late with openeng mics. It's pretty hard actually.. If you close faders of people not talking about 4-5 dBs, it's enough to get rid of most phasing..

8th November 2009	#8
foxy Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22	Hey, just did a job today with four lavs sitting in a row. I was recording to seperate channels on sound devices 788 t, way to go. No phasing problems when you can edit the channels seperately! Cheaper than the ducking machine I'd guess.

8th November 2009	#11
Jim vanBergen Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New York Friggin' City Posts: 2,562	Dugan- Dugan- Dugan. It's the secret weapon of most shows that use lavs.

10th November 2009	#14
huub Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: amsterdam Posts: 1,127	Has anyone here tried the shure intellimix system (scm 810 for example) for talkshow? my german collegues tell me it's fantastic...

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