Orchestral recording in open spaces

marcelo depetro · 27th October 2009

I am soon to record a series of orchestral concerts in the field, outdoors. I already did several orchestral recordings in the studio and in a few venues, but i never dealt with outdoors recording until now.

Any thoughts about miking techniques, and the use of reverb would be much apreciated.

I am not sure if the typical aproach will work, that being a main stereo ortf or nos pair, at the conductor and a few more spaced pairs and one or two eventual accents.

Thanks in advance.

Marcelo Depetro

rumleymusic · 27th October 2009

No typical approach will not work well, unless you are in an awesome outdoor space with natural reverb and an great orchestra shell.

You will most likely need many mics and mix carefully to get a decent sound. For the outdoor symphony pops season in san diego, the sound guy rented something like 30-40 DPA 4060's and spaced them throughout the orchestra. Of course you will need a large mixer with plenty of inputs. And you will have to hit it with some strong reverb, but it can sound good.

chris319 · 27th October 2009

In all outdoor recording, step #1 is dealing with wind noise.

fifthcircle · 28th October 2009

Not only would you, but the orchestra will be happy if you can get some sort of sides/shell on the group.

If you're completely out in the open, you'll probably have to rely on lots of mics and good quality reverb.

I've been doing this kind of work for years- in the case of no walls, I'll have either a single mic on each stand of strings, one to two mics per section of woodwinds and brass and multiple percussion and solo mics. The mic plot usually runs 40+ channels. More recently, with the invention of the DPA 4061, I mult two of those per channel (basically one channel per stand) with a mic on each string player. Then, over the ensemble, I'll place a main pair or tree and flanks, and sometimes overall section mics for woodwinds, brass, etc... The problem being that without a shell, the sound doesn't travel much and you loose control of the sound. Keep the overhead mics as they really help out the ensemble sound. Without them, your sound will really suffer.

If you do get some sort of shell, then you can probably loose many of the wind/percussion mics and probably a number of the strings. I'll often go 2-3 mics per section in this case...

Good reverb is your friend here. I usually grab higher end lexicon on now my Bricasti. I work hard to tailor the reverbs to make a convincing space- often using multiple verbs to keep clarity of sound.

Good luck and have fun.

--Ben

marcelo depetro · 29th October 2009

Thanks a lot for your input. Yes, i'll be completely out in the open, no shells, no walls, I´d like to use a minimal mic setup, 16 channels, 24 maximum, i'll be using an alesis HD24, and a pro tools rig as a backup.

Ben, when you say overheads, you mean the stereo pair in the conductor position, right?

Thanks again. Greetings

Marcelo

fifthcircle · 29th October 2009

Yes- the non close mics.

With 24 mics, I'd probably go with a tree and flanks, 10 string mics (front and halfway back on each string section), woodwinds/brass OH (2-6 depending on layout), perc- 2, timp, solo. Should bring you into the neighborhood of 24 and should still cover things relatively well... Your overhead mains (tree/pair with wide flanks) and your pair in front of your woodwinds will be your most important. The 2-6 I have for winds/brass are either a pair in front of everything or a WW pair, horn pair, brass pair (when brass are off to stage left), or a combination...

You may also find that you don't need all of them. I'd start big and strike mics as you find that they aren't needed.

--Ben

Petrus · 29th October 2009

Remember to get Rycote Zeppelins or BBG:s on EVERY mic, maybe even windjammers. Which means you need to boost the highs in the mix.

fifthcircle · 29th October 2009

You may need to boost the highs from a lack of walls and acoustic anyways... Then again, you may be able to go without.

I would not suggest Rycote- they work great, but look strange on a stage. Instead, there are some great foam screens that don't sound too bad. I have a ton of foam windscreens, but the one ones that get the most use are the U87 screens for the LD mics and the SM-81 screens for SD mics. They are big, but look ok to the crowd.

--Ben

marcelo depetro · 30th October 2009

Thanks for all the replys. Luckily, we will have a full day of general rehearsal prior to the filming in the open. This rehearsals are going to be recorded, and i'll have to deal with small theatres and such places, a much more friendly environment, i hope.
So, i'll try to get the best psible recording in rehearsals, and then make a recording in the location,the shoting of that event will be sincronized to the music later. I think i am not going for a proper recording in the field, being that a much more dificult task to achieve.

Greetings

Marcelo
MySpace - Marcelo - 44 - Male - Martinez, AR - myspace.com/marcelodepetro

27th October 2009	#2
rumleymusic Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,554	No typical approach will not work well, unless you are in an awesome outdoor space with natural reverb and an great orchestra shell. You will most likely need many mics and mix carefully to get a decent sound. For the outdoor symphony pops season in san diego, the sound guy rented something like 30-40 DPA 4060's and spaced them throughout the orchestra. Of course you will need a large mixer with plenty of inputs. And you will have to hit it with some strong reverb, but it can sound good. __________________ Daniel Rumley Rumley Music and Audio Production http://www.rumleymusic.com

28th October 2009	#4
fifthcircle Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,323	Not only would you, but the orchestra will be happy if you can get some sort of sides/shell on the group. If you're completely out in the open, you'll probably have to rely on lots of mics and good quality reverb. I've been doing this kind of work for years- in the case of no walls, I'll have either a single mic on each stand of strings, one to two mics per section of woodwinds and brass and multiple percussion and solo mics. The mic plot usually runs 40+ channels. More recently, with the invention of the DPA 4061, I mult two of those per channel (basically one channel per stand) with a mic on each string player. Then, over the ensemble, I'll place a main pair or tree and flanks, and sometimes overall section mics for woodwinds, brass, etc... The problem being that without a shell, the sound doesn't travel much and you loose control of the sound. Keep the overhead mics as they really help out the ensemble sound. Without them, your sound will really suffer. If you do get some sort of shell, then you can probably loose many of the wind/percussion mics and probably a number of the strings. I'll often go 2-3 mics per section in this case... Good reverb is your friend here. I usually grab higher end lexicon on now my Bricasti. I work hard to tailor the reverbs to make a convincing space- often using multiple verbs to keep clarity of sound. Good luck and have fun. --Ben __________________ Benjamin Maas Fifth Circle Audio Long Beach, CA http://www.fifthcircle.com

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27th October 2009	#1
marcelo depetro Gear interested Joined: Oct 2006 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 14 Thread Starter	Orchestral recording in open spaces I am soon to record a series of orchestral concerts in the field, outdoors. I already did several orchestral recordings in the studio and in a few venues, but i never dealt with outdoors recording until now. Any thoughts about miking techniques, and the use of reverb would be much apreciated. I am not sure if the typical aproach will work, that being a main stereo ortf or nos pair, at the conductor and a few more spaced pairs and one or two eventual accents. Thanks in advance. Marcelo Depetro

27th October 2009	#3
chris319 Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2007 Location: West Hollywood, USA Posts: 1,492	In all outdoor recording, step #1 is dealing with wind noise.

29th October 2009	#5
marcelo depetro Gear interested Joined: Oct 2006 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 14 Thread Starter	Thanks a lot for your input. Yes, i'll be completely out in the open, no shells, no walls, I´d like to use a minimal mic setup, 16 channels, 24 maximum, i'll be using an alesis HD24, and a pro tools rig as a backup. Ben, when you say overheads, you mean the stereo pair in the conductor position, right? Thanks again. Greetings Marcelo

29th October 2009	#7
Petrus Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2008 Location: Espoo Finland Posts: 868	Remember to get Rycote Zeppelins or BBG:s on EVERY mic, maybe even windjammers. Which means you need to boost the highs in the mix.

30th October 2009	#9
marcelo depetro Gear interested Joined: Oct 2006 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 14 Thread Starter	Thanks for all the replys. Luckily, we will have a full day of general rehearsal prior to the filming in the open. This rehearsals are going to be recorded, and i'll have to deal with small theatres and such places, a much more friendly environment, i hope. So, i'll try to get the best psible recording in rehearsals, and then make a recording in the location,the shoting of that event will be sincronized to the music later. I think i am not going for a proper recording in the field, being that a much more dificult task to achieve. Greetings Marcelo MySpace - Marcelo - 44 - Male - Martinez, AR - myspace.com/marcelodepetro