Sound Devices wishlist

[boojum]

There has been a thread on the "Remote" section for some time now with a wishlist for the Nagra series, most specifically the new Nagra VI. I was wondering if there are owners of the SD recorders, 7xx who are also disgruntled or who have ideas for improvement for their recorders. If you do have ideas please list them. It might be instructive for those of us who own them. In some cases it may be something we want is already there and we were just not aware of it. In other cases this just might be an interesting collecting point for information that SD ought to be aware of.

In any case it would be good to get the ideas/wishes/wants/needs down on paper.

Cheers

[tsvisser]

Originally Posted by boojum

There has been a thread on the "Remote" section for some time now with a wishlist for the Nagra series, most specifically the new Nagra VI. I was wondering if there are owners of the SD recorders, 7xx who are also disgruntled or who have ideas for improvement for their recorders. If you do have ideas please list them. It might be instructive for those of us who own them. In some cases it may be something we want is already there and we were just not aware of it. In other cases this just might be an interesting collecting point for information that SD ought to be aware of.

In any case it would be good to get the ideas/wishes/wants/needs down on paper.

Cheers

I am not an owner, but a curious bystander

I believe that Sound Devices has said something about working on such a device, but I think a lot of people would like a panel configuration of the CL8 with linear faders and perhaps a few more full featured controls. I still feel I'm only getting about 75% of the utility I could be getting out of my (non-SD) recorder without this hardware feature. Since the SD has 8 mic pres, quite a few, I think one could seriously do without a separate analog mixer front end as long as there was such a control surface that made mixing and communications routing convenient. At a minimum, I would think that a director's feed, private line, IFB, and camera mix is necessary, which the SD can accommodate given its I/O features.

[aracu]

I'd like it if they got the c-link finished on the 788t, to be able to connect
it more easily to to other 7 series recorders. It's been in a beta stage for a few months.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by aracu

I'd like it if they got the c-link finished on the 788t, to be able to connect
it more easily to to other 7 series recorders. It's been in a beta stage for a few months.

Boy, am I with you on this one! SD, are you listening??

[Larry Elliott]

I am sending a link to this thread to a friend of mine who is in the design team at SD.

Larry

[Denis Goekdag]

Making the 788 do 192k is on the top of my SD wishlist.

[loujudson]

My biggest wish is to be able to afford a 788. I could almost retire my HD24 if I had a 788...

Perhaps a trade up like Digi does might help... I could eke out 2k if I could trade in my 744.

Lou

PS - owned a 744T since 2004, love this machine. I do live sound and smal scale music and voicerecording, and the 744T is my best tool ever after the mics!

L

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by loujudson

My biggest wish is to be able to afford a 788. I could almost retire my HD24 if I had a 788...

Perhaps a trade up like Digi does might help... I could eke out 2k if I could trade in my 744.

Lou

PS - owned a 744T since 2004, love this machine. I do live sound and smal scale music and voicerecording, and the 744T is my best tool ever after the mics!

L

Lou, I have the same situation and share your sentiments completely. I've had my 744T since 2005. It's a killer recorder that does everything I could ask of a 4ch machine.

[thebri]

Alright, I'll chime in.

+1 on the fader box with linear faders. Features as follows:
- 9 faders, extra for master
- dedicated buttons for Talkback, slate, record, stop, Mstr, aux 1, aux 2, usr, combo s/M on each channel.
- Might as well hide a mic in the box for TB/Slate while we're at it.
- The mast and aux buttons switch the mix to whichever mix you are making, phones follow. I get this with a cheap controller and my FF800. It rocks.

Make a 744T with 4 pres on it. Lower the price just a bit.

For a flagship, make it control and monitor wireless ala Deva. Partner with Lectro. Charge more for it.

Fine, don't partner with Lectro, then just make your own wireless to control.

Make a Mac based software that would allow the meta data to be entered and edited ala Metacorder or Boom Recorder. Put the meters and other control functions up there as well. All through USB.

While we got the USB connection happening, store a mirror of the recording on the computer too. Make it auto sync any recording done offline.

Don't change the sound of anything.

[Denis Goekdag]

Originally Posted by thebri

Make a 744T with 4 pres on it. Lower the price just a bit.

Not a bad idea at all thumbsup

[pkautzsch]

Yeah, on-board IFB transmitter would be nice. Preferrably still useable in the EU after 2015. Plus the respective receivers, as rugged as all other SD gear.

[Baithak]

Just sold the 442/744 combination and "upgraded" to a 788T last week. I will try and add other needs as I spend more time with the recorder but the function that I am missing the most is "pan". Hopefully if SD do implement the slider-fader board they will make a provision to make at least one "post-pan" mix even if it is directly off the fader board.

Baithak

[aracu]

As far as I know the max battery is 7000 mAh, risky for recording a long concert with 8 channals using the 788. Hopefully a stronger battery will be made to allow for a longer run time.

[boojum]

Over on TS there was a mention of an off-brand 9000mAh battery, I believe. Of course it is huge. The 7000mAh one is large enough and too large for the carrying case which the 788T is shipped with.

When I have a long session I look for an outlet. If that is not feasible carrying a second 7000mAh battery would be the solution and switch when there is a break. Or, connect the two in parallel and use a dummy plate off an old battery to run wires from the paralleled 7000's to. Or, drag some lead; bring a huge lead-acid battery. There are a lot of options but not many are pretty options. This is not an SD but a battery manufacturer's deal.

[tourtelot]

I am assuming that all or most know of the Sound Devices forum over at their site:

Forums | Sound Devices, LLC

It is monitored constantly by the guys who make the changes.

BTW, the guys at SD are The Greatest (well, next to Ali that is.)

D.

[tsvisser]

I would actually like to see a 766t.

CONNECTIONS
6 full size XLR inputs, would mean the unit is slightly deeper than the 788t.
6 mic preamps, switchable to line input, 48v phantom (no T)
6 direct out + stereo mix + WC I/O on DB-25 switchable between balanced analog and AES
Stereo unbalanced Tape output on TA3
Stereo balanced output on full size XLR
IFB output on balanced TA3
Private line output on balanced TA3
TC I/O on Lemo-5
FW/USB for keyboard, PC link, DVD burners, etc...
1/4" headphone output with pot
CF or dual CF slot

FRONT PANEL
6 gain / trim pots (single row across, not two like the 788t)
maybe get rid of the LED ring and make it a dual concentric pot for gain and mix
Nagra style hardware monitoring switched (enable/solo + LCR)
all other menu / displays / buttons the same
keep 8 sets of LED meters, 1 for each input channel and a pair for main mix out
signal/clip LED for IFB out
signal/clip LED for private line out

I firmly believe that any location recorder that I use for non-reality TV based shoots should be 8 tracks, no more, no less. 6 ISO + 2 MIX. The main problem that I have with my existing recorder is that I can do 6 ISO, 5 ISO + 1 MIX, or 4 ISO + 2 MIX, but unlike the Zaxcom, Cantar, and Sound Devices 788t, it sacrifices input tracks when recording a mix, so can never record more than 6 tracks. Although I don't need something as small as the 788t, it would be nice to have something a bit more compact. The above unit would be perfect for OTS use. For cart use, an accessory panel mixer that had 6 linear 100mm faders, IFB send, PL send, pan, mute, solo, input trim (these override the main unit controls) and units should be able to be linked so that one could use dual 766t for situations that required more tracks (reality TV). A master section with master fader, IFB and PL main level, talkback, TC display, numeric keypad, maybe build in the DVD burner accessory into it too... all would be cool stuff and make me seriously consider jumping ship.

There are just too many ergonomic issues with the 788t that would make it hard for me to convert over. I'm not saying that any one way is better or worse than another, it comes down to personal preference based upon what we have learned to use and become accustomed to over time. Sound Devices has a little bit too much buried in menus for my personal taste. Although the CL8 accessory does address some of these, I understand it is slow and seems a bit awkward to use. Having a mixer in the bag is less important for me and I'd rather see a single unit that had the controls all laid out like I want rather than strapping extra controls right onto the box... save the accessory mixer for cart users and make it a panel format.

[bigcitysound]

I have recently purchased the 788. I think it is a very capable recorder but agree that I wouldnt mind it beimg slightly bigger and having less things burried in the menu. I like the 766T plan layed out above with 6 XLR pres and a better front panel layout.
I havnt bought the CL8 controller yet and am not totally thrilled with the design of screwing this unit on to the recorder.. I really think they should have gone for a one box solution. For mixers doing features and episodics the upcoming linear fader mix panel will be a great way to use this machine. If you need flexibility of using it in a bag or flat on a cart then you're stuck with the CL8. I know there is some latency with the faders, anyone have other specific problems with the CL8?

Jon C

[boojum]

Great additions, guys. Hopefully this is being checked by SD. They are aware of it so they must be.

[boojum]

This thread has been around for a while now and not had much action. It could mean few folks own SD's. Or that they are pretty satisfied with the hardware and software. Or that they have given up in despair.

When I see the long lists of suggestions for other makes I wonder why this one has so few suggestions.

My one wish is that C-Link be enabled for the 788T. That would give me 12 channels with my two 722's. I am hopeful SD will do this soon. They did bring out the sweet CL-9 which is unfortunately priced about $2,499 above what I can afford. ;o)

OK, any suggestions for improvements and upgrades???

[Baithak]

I will probably buy the CL-9 seeing it has the ability to do pan and mix changes on the fly both features that I really miss; the EQ addition is a nice plus. Plus it now looks easier control phantom, inputs cuts etc, etc. Full-sized XLR either AES or analog outputs on the board would have been nice.

Anyway, I am happy that I did not buy the CL-8.

The one thing I am trying to find out is : Can the CL-9 be used to mix down the tracks that are already recorded. Looks like currently the answer is no (e.g. they say that the faders control the inputs, they are careful to say "input pan" and so on). but if that is a forever answer, it would be sad.

Baithak

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by boojum

My one wish is that C-Link be enabled for the 788T.

There is a workaround but it requires a XL-88 breakout cable for the 788T with its logic lead connected to the CL-1. That will start/stop the 788T and the C-Link plug will control your other 7xx recorder.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

There is a workaround but it requires a XL-88 breakout cable for the 788T with its logic lead connected to the CL-1. That will start/stop the 788T and the C-Link plug will control your other 7xx recorder.

MP - When the 788T first came out I was able to run the machine from a 722! SD walked me through it. There may have been an SPDIF cable in the deal, too. That may have stopped with a firmware update. I will dink around and see if I can get it to work. Joe, I think it was, at SD made sure I used the 722 as master and the 788 as slave. If I can get it to work I will let you guys know. I know it worked for me. I was thrilled to death. I am pretty sure I could not daisy chain the other 722 into the deal, though. Maybe 722 > 722 > 788???


Might there also be a way to wire up a CL-1 for just the tap(s) needed and bypass the SD $150 for the full breakout cable?

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by boojum

This thread has been around for a while now and not had much action. It could mean few folks own SD's. Or that they are pretty satisfied with the hardware and software. Or that they have given up in despair.
?

I think you will have more luck in the sound devices forum and there the developers will listen for sure.

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by aracu

As far as I know the max battery is 7000 mAh, risky for recording a long concert with 8 channals using the 788. Hopefully a stronger battery will be made to allow for a longer run time.

You can connect ANY kind of battery in terms of capacity via the external power connector. Most people run that machine via an external NP1-type battery.

[tsvisser]

For long runtimes, one would typically have a sealed lead acid on board one's cart. It would also be pretty simple to make you own specialized battery module from LiFePo or Li cells.

Regarding the CL-9, having simple rec and stop transport buttons located on the bottom right of the panel seems like a huge issue. This may even be a fatal flaw, for any type of press and hold logic that they add in firmware would seem to remove a certain level of convenience from its operation. As cool as the CL-9 is as a controller, I think I would still rather have a traditional analog mixing board in front and simply use the 788t as a recorder. Routing also seems a little compromised. Private line should be easier to access rather than the default general IFB feed. When you consider the cost of the CL9, you could put a Yamaha mixing board in front instead with a significant amount of additional functionality.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I'd like the gain, pan, and aux sends to be permanent dedicated pots. I could live with assignable flexible EQ controls, but a nice analog board with all these controls laid out with instant access, no switching modes or hunting and pecking for navigational commands, seems like the best way to go for high intensity film mixing, the device's primary application.

Sure the CL-9 is compact and lightweight, but for cart environments, do you really need it to be?

[tourtelot]

Originally Posted by tsvisser

I am not an owner, but a curious bystander

I believe that Sound Devices has said something about working on such a device, but I think a lot of people would like a panel configuration of the CL8 with linear faders and perhaps a few more full featured controls. I still feel I'm only getting about 75% of the utility I could be getting out of my (non-SD) recorder without this hardware feature. Since the SD has 8 mic pres, quite a few, I think one could seriously do without a separate analog mixer front end as long as there was such a control surface that made mixing and communications routing convenient. At a minimum, I would think that a director's feed, private line, IFB, and camera mix is necessary, which the SD can accommodate given its I/O features.

CL9 should be in stores by mid-March. CL-9 Linear Fader Controller for 788T | Sound Devices, LLC

[tsvisser]

Originally Posted by tourtelot

CL9 should be in stores by mid-March. CL-9 Linear Fader Controller for 788T | Sound Devices, LLC

Ha, you caught me. Yes, I am more or less doing a 180. I think that at the price point, the product still falls short for me. I have come to realize that to provide all the functionality that I would want, the CL-9 should have been bigger with more pots, and thus more expensive. Perhaps my response was also selfishly in the realization that my non-SD recorder has more limited I/O than the 788t. It's difficult to make 100% of the people 100% happy, and maybe I'm being too picky. I do think the CL-9 is innovative and is marketing squarely at what people are asking for (although they could have put some preproduction units into the hands of a few mixers and probably avoided the couple of glaring issues) and for that I applaud SD.

In a nut shell...

Why isn't there a Q button for the EQ? Why do you have to press F and gain simultaneously? This is not intuitive... tradeoff for size / vs convenience and SD went with size, maybe not the highest priority for a cart based device.

There should be a dedicated private line, public coms, AND slate mic. Again, no double presses or shift presses.

As mentioned, the transport control location and lack of safety.

There should be at the very least a dedicated gain pot for the mic pres. A soft encoder could be utilized for other things such as AUX sends, Pan, etc... but I feel that certain controls need to be accessible 100% of the time without accessing or exiting a special mode. I rarely get enough time during blocking and rehearsals to get completely set and often times that first 2 seconds of a scene, there's a very critical time when my hand needs to go somewhere and make a move immediately in order to dial in the mix. I feel that the CL-9 might not be the best product to accomplish this. It is an engineering marvel, buss powered, compact, looks cool, pretty cheap compared to the competition and traditional film sound panel mixers (PSC, Cooper, Sonosax, etc...) but ultimately it falls short in a few areas with respect to performance or would be a step behind an analog panel.

[aracu]

"My one wish is that C-Link be enabled for the 788T. That would give me 12 channels with my two 722's."

It might work since the c-link is in a beta though unsupported stage.

Another approach is to use all the recorders and synch them in post studying the waveforms. There is an advantage of being able to use mic setups far away from one another, for example, both onstage and hanging from a catwalk, with fewer and shorter cables since they don't have to be connected to one central recorder.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by boojum

Might there also be a way to wire up a CL-1 for just the tap(s) needed and bypass the SD $150 for the full breakout cable?

I have a 788T and a 744T and I'd do that if it were possible. Well, it may be possible, but it is definitely undocumented and unsupported. They really need to make the C-Link work unit-to-unit for the 788T like it does with the other 7xx models. That would be elegant, simple and cheaper.

BTW, you are right about wordclock. It is only necessary that the recorders be in sync since there is no direct relationship between wordclock/sample-rate and the roll/stop control logic.

[David Spearritt]

It's a shame that just as SD release a new recorder (788T) there is a wishlist thread, and yearning for a config that doesn't exist (766).

Tell us what is great about it, as well.